| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Matt |
Posted - 10/11/2006 : 12:12:35 AM
What is the ruling if a player is shooting the 8-ball (in 8-ball, obviously), makes the 8-ball in the marked pocket, and then after the shot the cue ball makes contact with the player's stick a second time?
I will give you the brief background... we had a match tonight go down to the last game, and our player had 2 balls left on the table. The opposing player was shooting on the 8, and it was clearly a shot where a cue ball scratch was a distinct possibility. The player shot the 8-ball, and made the shot, but after the shot was made the cue ball banked off of the rail and then bounced off of the shooter's stick. The only people who noticed it were myself and my co-captain, and possibly the shooter, who didn't say anything.
My co-captain and I talked about it for a few seconds and decided to let it go... we've always been a team that plays on the table, not by the book. But in retrospect I'm curious if that is a foul and what others would have done, knowing that no one on the other team-- aside from maybe the shooter-- actually saw it happen.
Thanks for your input! |
| 11 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Matt |
Posted - 10/19/2006 : 07:14:50 AM
Thanks much for your responses. (Sorry it took me so long I was out of town for a week).
You answered my question that it was a foul. In a perfect world, the shooter would have declared a foul on himself and lost the match. As captain, I would have felt obligated to accept the win (after congratulating the player for being such an honest player) because it was a situation where a scratch was a definite possibility. In fact the way I saw it it would have been dificult not to scratch.
In contrast, had he been shooting a shot where there was absolutely no chance of a scratch, I would hope he would still declare a foul on himself, but even if he did we would have given it to him, as I think most teams would.
Thanks again. |
| Kerry Randolph |
Posted - 10/12/2006 : 2:25:43 PM
Now don't feel that way, I could be on your side. |
| Torsten |
Posted - 10/12/2006 : 12:53:34 PM
No thanks, Kerry. I have a pretty good idea already. 
"I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy." |
| Kerry Randolph |
Posted - 10/12/2006 : 09:33:05 AM
I am sorry Torsten I thought you would get my referrence. Earlier in this thread you said "Everybody within 20 feet looked at me like I was an idiot (which is still a point up for debate)"
If you would like I will let you know which side of the debate I was on. |
| Torsten |
Posted - 10/12/2006 : 09:14:45 AM
I didn't realize we were debating, Kerry! 
"I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy." |
| Kerry Randolph |
Posted - 10/11/2006 : 3:13:15 PM
Acting like a good league representiive I looked in the team manual and found on page 51 under "there are various ways to lose" it states "a game is forfieted if you alter the course of the 8-ball or the cue ball in a game losing situation."
It is not considered a double hit but altering the course of the cue ball. You do not have to have a third party watch this type of foul in order to enforce it.
Torsten the debate is over. |
| Torsten |
Posted - 10/11/2006 : 12:28:59 PM
Matt, there is no doubt about the ruling. Any time the white ball makes contact with a stick multiple times before it stops moving, it's a double-hit foul. I had the EXACT same thing happen to me last season. I made a relatively simple 8 ball shot to win the frame. It wasn't going to be anywhere close to any kind of foul. But in the process of lifting up from the table, the front of my cue slipped off of my hand and whacked directly into the white ball which was still clearly in motion. Everybody within 20 feet looked at me like I was an idiot (which is still a point up for debate) but all I could do was shake my head and rack. As previously mentioned in this thread, do not at any time touch the white ball with anything while it is still moving from a previous shot. ESPECIALLY IN REGIONALS OR HIGHER LEVEL TOURNAMENTS. Even if your shot is clearly going to result in a foul, do not pick it up to hand it to your opponent before it has completely stopped as that may result in multiple fouls.
"I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy." |
| Kerry Randolph |
Posted - 10/11/2006 : 08:37:24 AM
Technically any interference with the cue ball is a foul. I have given ball in hand doing exactly what you just said. fortunately it was not on the eight ball.
You should have asked the shooter if the cue ball hit his stick, and hopefully he plays with the same integrety you do and gives up the game. If there is a chance the cue ball could scratch you have to let it stop before touching it. If it is slowly rolling down the middle of the table with no possible chance of getting near a pocket than most people don't care if you touch it.
One of the things we were told at nationals was to not touch the cue ball until it stops rolling or your opponent could call a foul. This keeps the problems off the table. |
| trhxke |
Posted - 10/11/2006 : 08:37:02 AM
We usually don't so it is important that shooters are honest and announce their own foul.
Unfortunately, not everyone does, especially when it would mean lost of game and sometimes lost of match.
Sometimes the shooter simply does not realize he fouled and if called on it would not contest it. That is just the nature of the game (any game for that matter) and just like those close calls in the NFL, you have to play through. You don't want to get too bogged down in the small things. It will drive you nuts. Sometimes you get the roll and sometimes the other guy will. There are numerous scenarios and each will have it own specifics. The trick is to win by a large enough margin that those little things no longer sway the outcome of the match then you can also relax and enjoy the game. When it is a close match you will almost always have situations where the call could go either way and that is how our instant replays in the NFL came into being. They still have "Too close to call!" situations and the replay just slows down the game and takes away some of the excitement.
In pool like all one on one sports there will always be one winner and one loser. Win graciously, lose with dignity and always strive to enjoy the game, win or lose.
Tom Hardinger
www.BigRigToys.com
Your Internet Source for pool cues, darts and various colletibles. |
| Matt |
Posted - 10/11/2006 : 08:11:43 AM
Good point, but why would anyone ever request a 3rd party observer on a routine shot? |
| trhxke |
Posted - 10/11/2006 : 06:47:51 AM
Hi Matt,
Your question actually involves s couple of issues.
I believe the shot is not complete until the cue ball comes to rest. The cue ball hitting the cue after the 8 ball drops is still a foul.
Another point is whether or not the cue ball did in fact strike the cue after the 8 ball drops and unless the opponent (you in your case) has requested a 3rd observer this call would go to the shooter and only he can say if the foul occurred.
I'm hope someone will correct me if I am in error here.
Tom Hardinger
www.BigRigToys.com
Your Internet Source for pool cues, darts and various colletibles. |
