| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Nathaniel |
Posted - 10/03/2008 : 09:29:25 AM
Hey Phil,
Question:
Player has taken a time-out while on the 8-ball. Is it legal for the coach to mark the pocket for the player?
Nathaniel H. |
| 9 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Victor |
Posted - 10/10/2008 : 11:34:58 AM
Hi Everyone,
My two cents:
There are players that at times go-along with the "call pocket" and "spirit of the rules" agreement. I never object, but for the most part I have avoided doing this myself.
However, this past week during my 8 Ball match, I was lining up an across the table bank shot to the corner pocket. I use my car keys as my marker and placing them on the rail directly in front of me or to my right would have been distracting to my shot. I asked my opponent if it were okay to place the keys about a foot away from the pocket. He immediately agreed which I thought was good sportsmanship. I banked the shot and won the match; unfortunate for him. I shook his hand and thanked him for a good match and his graciousness! This gentleman's name is Dave Tucker (Slated To Win) and he deserves a loud Huh-Ah!!! 
Victor  |
| Moose Dragon |
Posted - 10/09/2008 : 4:20:15 PM
Well Derrick it is not as cut and dry as you might think.
First of all a sportsmanship violation is not a foul.
Here is the rule out of the team manuel for what is a foul that pertains to this situation.
Receiving illegal aid (coaching from person(s) other than the coach)
during your turn at the table. To determine what is and is not considered coaching, refer to COACHING in the General Rules Section of this manual.
This is a little vague and generalized but nowhere in the team manual does it say if a coach marks a pocket for a player or even aids a player it is a foul. I am not saying this is an area that should be exploited. Pretty much everyone follows the rule of no help except during a time out. The spirit of the rule is to not give help to a shooter to decide what shot to shoot or how to shoot it, not to handcuff people at all times.
The times I have marked an 8 ball was once for my player where the 8 ball was dead center in a corner pocket maybe a 1/2 inch from going in. My player was injured and had a hard time getting around the table, she was on the far side of the table and the pocket with the 8 ball in front of it was about 3 feet from my seat. So instead of having her work her way around the table mark it, and then work her way back around the table to almost the same spot she was standing did not seem necessary to me.
I also marked an 8 ball for an opponent with the 8 ball basically in the same position, It was done after about the 4th or 5th inning that both players had chased the 8 ball around the table. I did it jokingly and everyone got a laugh out of it.
Let me ask you this. If you were the opposing team captain on either one of those nights would you have called foul, and or written a sportsmanship violation on me?
When you take into account that people are considering the "spirit of the rule" most rules are not that cut and dry.
You said in your post that you and Nat H. agree to just call the 8 ball instead of marking it. Here is the rule for that.
You have won the game when all the balls of your numerical group have been pocketed and you have legally pocketed the 8-ball in a properly marked pocket without scratching. To properly mark the pocket, a coaster or some other reasonable marker (to avoid confusion, we do not recommend marking the pocket with chalk) must be placed next to the pocket the 8-ball is intended to enter.
If you take this rule "cut and dry" both you and Nat are breaking a rule when you just call the pocket. I know a lot of the higher ranked players that know each other do this and I am fine with it, because they are in the "spirit of the rules". The same could be said for marking an obvious 8 ball. |
| D-RACK |
Posted - 10/09/2008 : 10:14:39 AM
This is cut and dry!
If your player is out of TIME-OUTS it is a FOUL for any other player to mark the pocket for them. You are essentially telling them what the correct shot is in your opinion.
What is obvious to one may not be obvious to another.
It does not take that long to walk around the table. A RULE IS A RULE. Just the same if 2 players agree to call the pocket. I play Nat H. at-least 5 times a year, We agree to call it then thats the Rule....But Best friends or not we play within the spirt of the rule always. (Except for when he beats me then he CHEATED lol JK)
BACK TO THE ORIGINAL QUESTION................................
If the player SKILL LEVEL 2-7 has no timeouts left it is a FOUL (Unsportsmanlike) to mark the pocket for the player shooting at the table.
I am sure people can dream up situations like the 8 is hanging in the corner......so what let the player at the table play their game.....
If they have a Time-Out and the Coach marks their 8 Ball that is their Time-Out.....
If they simply say "Don't Forget To Mark Your Pocket ..... " THat is OK for anyone to remind them... I have often been watch 2 teams play on another table and will remind the player shooting to mark the 8 Ball. That is just good sportsmanship....
D-RACK
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| Moose Dragon |
Posted - 10/08/2008 : 08:25:30 AM
It depends, if it is a very obvious shot than no harm done. If it is a shot that requires any thinking at all than either a timeout is taken if they have one, or you mention it to the other captain that they can not do that. If it persists you write a sportsmanship violation on them.
I have done this a few times when the shot is a no brainer and it is more convenient for me to mark it rather than the shooter walking around the table. I have never seen this happen where it was a problem.
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| Keith |
Posted - 10/07/2008 : 10:45:30 AM
If they have not yet taken a time out then marking the pocket becomes one as it is outside influence.
Confucios say "Man who dip in other man's well often get crabs." |
| Phil |
Posted - 10/06/2008 : 7:34:46 PM
quote:
[i]Originally posted by Nathaniel[/i]
[br]Thanks for the help guys. I agree with you that it’s not a big deal on who marks the pocket during a timeout.
I was hoping to get Phil's expertise on this situation...
The original question was meant to setup another one. I have been around for a few of these and it generally doesn’t turn out to well. What is the ruling if a coach or team member marks a pocket for their player at the table without taking a timeout? What would happen if the player had no more time outs?
Nathaniel H.
You should know by now that I don't answer the easy ones. You guys do a good job of that yourselves. Even when I do answer one I like to wait a couple of days to give everyone a chance to chime in. That's what I'm going to do with this one...
Phil
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| Nathaniel |
Posted - 10/06/2008 : 3:57:28 PM
Thanks for the help guys. I agree with you that it’s not a big deal on who marks the pocket during a timeout.
I was hoping to get Phil's expertise on this situation...
The original question was meant to setup another one. I have been around for a few of these and it generally doesn’t turn out to well. What is the ruling if a coach or team member marks a pocket for their player at the table without taking a timeout? What would happen if the player had no more time outs?
Nathaniel H. |
| Kerry Randolph |
Posted - 10/06/2008 : 09:55:18 AM
I would say as long as the intended pocket is legally marked it does not matter who marks it during a timeout.
It is better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid than to open it and remove all doubt |
| Keith |
Posted - 10/05/2008 : 11:59:50 PM
This is something that is done all the time and if it not legal then that needs to be reviewed. The coach can help with the shot and anyone can remind them to mark a pocket. My educaded guess is yes they can mark the pocket during a time out.
Confucios say "Man who dip in other man's well often get crabs." |
