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TCIndepMo
USA
12 Posts |
 Posted - 06/16/2009 : 01:14:34 AM
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If Phil and Taz are doing such a horrible job how come they have lasted 15 years, have so many loyal and returning players each year and have one of the most successful leagues in your part of the country?
I live 1800 miles away but can guarantee that Jump's team was cheating. They are now mad only because they are not getting away with it anymore. And YES they were cheating the APA, but they were also cheating you other players. The honest ones, I mean.
Besides, any APA LO that did show favoritism towards certain teams would be out of business in 6 months. LOs don't care who wins, only that they are honest and rated correctly on SL.
IMO.
TomCampbell
APA Independence Missouri |
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Torsten
USA
401 Posts |
Posted - 06/16/2009 : 5:09:08 PM
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Agreed. To many of us, Taz and Phil aren't simply our league operators. They're our friends. To even dignify the crude and ridiculous remarks of one who has egregiously cheated is debateable, but that said, the APA is better off without that team. See you all around the league.
I think the worst time to have a heart attack would be during a game of charades... or during a game of fake heart attack. |
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TCIndepMo
USA
12 Posts |
Posted - 06/17/2009 : 01:22:25 AM
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What? You mean they didn't cheat the normal way, but the "egregiously" way? Well, that changes everything.
Where's my torch? Where's my pitchfork?
"or during a game of fake heart attack" - but wouldn't this make you the sure winner of the game? What's the problem?
TomCampbell
APA Independence Missouri |
Edited by - TCIndepMo on 06/17/2009 01:23:55 AM |
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andrea805
1 Posts |
Posted - 06/17/2009 : 03:12:36 AM
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how can you guarantee the the TEAM was cheating?
they play in 9-foot tables with small pockets.
their 3-handicap player gets nervous whenever playing against a female. he lost 16-4 at BOTH tounament of champions games and barely won on the first regional match. then, he made a 3-ball break on his first break on the 2nd match, made a 1-rail-kick-2-rail-bank to the side pocket (whom the other team complained as a pro-shot)playing an inebriated opponent. he got raised to a 5.
their 4-handicap player won 16-4 against a player (that had 8 beers before the match) and lost the second ToC match 12-8. He won the first Reg'l match 18-2 against a very nervous 3 (she missed balls inches from the pocket with the cue ball even closer). He got raised to a 5.
Granted one player played beyond his handicap (maybe there's no such thing as in-the-zone). Does this give Phil the right to yell and course at the TEAM calling everyone a thief and a cheat?
Taz said the team did not do their best during the league season. The team got in as both 8- and 9- ball division champs. Does this imply that either ALL the rest of the teams in Oxnard are bad players or did they ALL conspire to let the team-in-question win and represent the area?
Regarding other teams, how could a team that is no longer active still vie for a position to represent Southcoast APA in the Vegas tournament? |
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Keith
USA
242 Posts |
Posted - 06/17/2009 : 05:24:52 AM
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| As much as I would like to jump into this topic and throw mud. The topic is done and should be left alone. Any conversations that take place should be between Phil and the others that this affected. Please give both sides that much weather you think they deserve it or not. |
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Phil
USA
829 Posts |
Posted - 06/17/2009 : 7:06:44 PM
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quote:
[i]Originally posted by andrea805[/i]
[br]how can you guarantee the the TEAM was cheating?
I'll get to this a bit further down in my reply...
quote:
they play in 9-foot tables with small pockets.
Why? Not all of the tables in that location have small pockets. When a team chooses the small pockets, it's because they feel it gives them an advantage over their opponents. If my 3 has an advantage over your 3 on a table like this, it can only mean that my 3 shouldn't be a 3.
quote:
their 3-handicap player gets nervous whenever playing against a female. he lost 16-4 at BOTH tounament of champions games and barely won on the first regional match. then, he made a 3-ball break on his first break on the 2nd match, made a 1-rail-kick-2-rail-bank to the side pocket (whom the other team complained as a pro-shot)playing an inebriated opponent. he got raised to a 5.
He got raised to a 5 because he was observed by a third party to have the ability of a 5. This third party knows that a 1-rail-kick-2-rail-bank is a luck shot. The fact that the guy has a problem playing against females doesn't change his ability.
quote:
their 4-handicap player won 16-4 against a player (that had 8 beers before the match) and lost the second ToC match 12-8. He won the first Reg'l match 18-2 against a very nervous 3 (she missed balls inches from the pocket with the cue ball even closer). He got raised to a 5.
Granted one player played beyond his handicap (maybe there's no such thing as in-the-zone). Does this give Phil the right to yell and course at the TEAM calling everyone a thief and a cheat?
In-the-zone can make a 3 play like a 4, but it can't produce the rock-solid mechanics, excellent cue ball control, or knowledge of defensive play that resulted in my evaluation of the player as a 7.
This is where the whole team comes in. If you play an entire sixteen-week session with a player, you get a good feel for their game. In my opinion, everyone on the team knew this player's skill level was way too low. Why else would they say nothing when he went from a 3 to a 4, a 4 to a 5, and a 5 to a 6 in just four matches? In those four matches he shot scores that were better than any of the scores he shot in the thirteen matches he played during Spring Session.
When the captain approached me, he said he wanted to discuss the 3 that had just been raised to a 5. I asked him if he was sure he didn't want to talk about anyone else, and he said, no, nobody else. He had no concerns that this player had gone up three skill levels in four matches, meaning he KNEW coming in that this guy was too low.
On page 32 of the current team manual, it says "If you think a teammate's skill level is too low for any reason, simply call the League Office and ask them to raise the player's skill level appropriately." If you know your player is too low and say nothing, you are as guilty as they are. The whole team knew, nobody said a thing - they are all guilty. They wanted to ride the advantage as long as they could - this is cheating.
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Taz said the team did not do their best during the league season. The team got in as both 8- and 9- ball division champs. Does this imply that either ALL the rest of the teams in Oxnard are bad players or did they ALL conspire to let the team-in-question win and represent the area?
Neither. Shooting your best and doing just enough to win are two different things.
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Regarding other teams, how could a team that is no longer active still vie for a position to represent Southcoast APA in the Vegas tournament?
I'm not sure what you're asking here, unless you're referring to one of the 8-Ball teams that is going to Vegas. This team played all three sessions (Summer, Fall, Spring) during the league year, and there is no requirement that they continue during the next league year. The Local Team Championship (Regionals) and National Team Championships are the culmination of the 2008-2009 league year, and this team met all eligibility requirements. We wish them luck.
Phil
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OnTheBreak9ball
1 Posts |
Posted - 06/21/2009 : 12:22:39 AM
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| I am replying to andrea805.If you had been at the event all weekend you would have seen the same performance everyone else had seen. I don't believe that you have the correct information. I believe that you have heard some bad things and have taken it upon yourself to bad mouth a league and its operators that you have no clue about. It is stated on the team sheet: BEFORE YOU PLAY IN THE UPPER LEVEL TOURNAMENT YOU ARE REQUIRED TO SIGN A SHEET THAT STATES YOU ARE AKNOWLEDGING THE SKILL LEVEL OF EVERY PLAYER ON THE TEAM. The team was well aware that they could still play in the final match, but the TEAM AND CAPTAIN decided to forfeit the entire match. It was the CHOICE of the WHOLE TEAM TO WALK OUT. The league operators NEVER told the team that they could not still play. So, if you and Jumpcue1 want to bad mouth a league and its operators, that only had the best interest at heart for their players and integrity of their league then obviously INTEGRITY AND HONESTY do not lye within you. |
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Keith
USA
242 Posts |
Posted - 06/21/2009 : 12:45:51 AM
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Correct me if I am wrong but if a team goes up two skill levels they are in danger of being disqualified if the lo decides to do so. The fact that the team went up by five skill levels from the end of the playoffs to the second round of regionals screams out that at least one of the team members if not more were not being honest with their handicaps. The fact that the team was allowed to continue tells me that the lo was being lenient. And as far as Phil and Taz having favorites. I am sure they do but they don't let it get in the way of the matches in any way shape or form.
There are no stupid questions except the one you just asked. |
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shodbyed
51 Posts |
Posted - 06/21/2009 : 3:02:49 PM
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first of all i wanna say that i cant believe people can even have a doubt of sand bagging. to go up that many skill levels and still win is just impossible. EVERYONE has problems adjusting when they go up a skill level. many bounce between for a while.
as for phil and taz having favorite teams, i doubt they have favorite teams, its favorite people they have. friends they've made. (mostly its people that dont give them too much grief that i think they like most. probably why they hate me so much lol) and although you want your friends to do well, who wins doesnt affect their reason for running the league. they get paid the same no matter who wins. after all business is business. personally i thank them for running the league and putting up with our b.s. and some how still enjoy it. i know i couldnt deal with the likes of me.
you really still think im a 7? |
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Keith
USA
242 Posts |
Posted - 06/22/2009 : 08:13:56 AM
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Ed you are a good player and went up 2 skill levels in the course of one seasons worth of play. There are times that the system needs to play catch up. It did the same to me in 9 ball and I was even better when I went up the first time. This was due to confidence and the fact I had been working on my game for a while and it was starting to come together. When I went up the second time I became overwhelmed and started to struggle. I didn't sandbag but the system needed to play catch up. As far as you being a 7. You are good enough to hang on for a while and just need to get it through your head that not everything goes by the book on the table. Remember there is more than one way to run out a table.
There are no stupid questions except the one you just asked. |
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EARTH to Jumpcue1
