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snipes
50 Posts |
 Posted - 10/13/2005 : 11:33:34 AM
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| I played a game last night where both of us were on the hill and on the eight. I shot and left the eight ball on the edge of the pocket. No one thought to count, but the amount of time that lapsed was 3 to 5 seconds and the other player had yet to approach the table to begin his shot. With no one near the table, down the eight went. Most of us believe the win should have gone to me. What is the official ruling on this type of situation? |
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Kerry Randolph
USA
172 Posts |
Posted - 10/13/2005 : 2:01:59 PM
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According to the rule book pages 47 and 48 "If a ball which has been hanging in a pocket for more than a few seconds suddenly falls in, it is to be placed back on the table where it was originally sitting. Once a ball has stopped all motion, it cannot move again without outside forces affection it."
I hope this helps. Did you call your league rep, or Apa office for advise? |
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snipes
50 Posts |
Posted - 10/13/2005 : 3:29:06 PM
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| Thanx for the input Kerry, I called the office but I couldn't get a specific answer to a "few" seconds. That's the problem, it left it in a grey area. The office suggested to replace the ball which is what was done. Most of us feel/felt that it was a "few" seconds, except the other captain! A league rep was called after the fact and said he would have ruled it a good fall if he had been present, but he wasn't. Perhaps this will give good reason to have the rule changed to be better defined. It was a misfortune for me last night, but I would like to see this issue resolved so no one else gets hung up. We'll see what happens! |
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Matt
38 Posts |
Posted - 10/13/2005 : 3:45:53 PM
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I had one a few weeks ago (it wasn't the 8-ball and didn't have any real bearing on the match)...
One of my players shot a ball towards the side pocket slowly and it just barely reached the pocket and hung on the edge. Everyone from both teams collectively held their breath because it LOOKED so darn close, and after I would estimate 3-4 seconds the ball dropped in. My player kept shooting and there wasn't any real doubt on either side that she should have, mostly because no one moved while the ball was sitting there. There weren't any thumps on the floor or the table that could have caused it to drop in, it appeared to just drop on its own.
My point is that I'm not sure I agree with the book that "once a ball has stopped all motion, it cannot move again without outside forces affecting it." This ball had definitely come to (what appeared to be) a complete stop for about 3 seconds, and nobody in the room moved at all during that time and it fell in.
On a related subject, I guess if the ball had stopped and not dropped it would have been ball-in-hand for the other player (no rail). I suppose if it had stopped, then fallen in, and the teams ruled to replace it where it had originally stopped, it would still be ball-in-hand. Meaning that the correct ruling on this could potentially have a significant impact on a game.
Matt |
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snipes
50 Posts |
Posted - 10/13/2005 : 4:16:01 PM
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| Thanx for the input Matt. The ball was on the rail and was a cut to the corner, so ball in hand wouldn't have applied here. Sounds like my ball did the same thing as your team mates! No one was near the table, as was stated previously. You're right in your opinion about the "outside forces" affecting the ball. Of course I will agree an outside force affected the ball, gravity! |
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Taz
USA
555 Posts |
Posted - 10/17/2005 : 09:06:53 AM
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A number of rules cannot be "better defined" as they are subjective by necessity. In this particular case, how many players do you know stand around after attempting a shot, looking at a stop watch and know the exact amount of time that elapses after striking the ball or waiting for it to stop? "A few seconds" is as good as it gets. There is no issue to resolve here. The rule is written as clearly as it can be.
In the case snipes describes, unlike most other shots, the shooter atempts to make the 8-ball and it stops at the edge of the pocket, the shooter most often will stand there an extra second or two looking at the ball in either disbelief or hoping it will drop. It didn't. Snipes walks away and the opponent had not yet reached the table. The ball must be replaced.
Official ruling? Snipes was given the official ruling when he called the office. It wasn't "suggested" that he replace the ball. The rule IS to replace the ball. Kerry's post (above) quotes the Official APA Team Manual. The league rep Snipes contacted was incorrect. Hmm..? You called the office for a ruling and then called your league rep....Why?
Lastly, noone expects you to agree with all the rules in the manual (I know I don't); however, you must abide by them. |
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Doug Gill
USA
92 Posts |
Posted - 10/17/2005 : 09:15:04 AM
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Sounds like this was the week for gravity to sneak into the picture......ask Anika!
Anyway, I believe Kerry is correct. According to the rules, the ball should have been respotted "where it was originally sitting". Working in a business where reactions are typically measured in seconds, "a few seconds" can seem like an instant or an eternity.
Now,  , if this ball was respotted according to the rules, wouldn't it also do the same thing for the opposing player? 
Sorry...couldn't help myself.
Good Shooting! |
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snipes
50 Posts |
Posted - 10/17/2005 : 12:27:25 PM
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For clairification, the office was called for the "offical ruling" and the ball was replaced. The call to the rep was on different matter and I was asked how I did that night and so I told him. I did not call the rep after the office, what would the point in that be silly?
Doug, funny you mentioned the respotting thing. I did try and place the ball in the same area (so did my opponent) and it kept rolling in. Arrgghhhh, I was just frustrated! I hate to lose that way and my opponent didn't like winning that way, but oh well!!! |
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Time required for a ball to drop!
