| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| movistar |
Posted - 04/13/2010 : 09:17:27 AM
ok.. we are about to start a new session so I thought this might be a good time to start some new thoughts....on score keeping
we all know there is a lot to do when keeping score for 9 ball..
many times there are disagreements on how many balls a player made on a rack... here is my suggestion... when re printing the score sheets, lets make a CHANGE.... instead of having the little hash marks across the top and bottom of each player... lets replace the dots with numbers 1 thru 9 and for those of you who can't see this it looks like this 1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9/1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9/1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9/1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9/1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9/1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9/1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9- up to the max of 75 and have the score keeper mark off which balls each player makes in a rack... very easy if player #one makes the 1.3.5.6.9 he gets 6 points and player #two makes the 2.4.7.8 he gets 4 points etc. a mark thru a number on BOTH players lines denotes a dead ball !
this change DOES NOT take up anymore space on the page than what is already on there !!!! |
| 15 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Torsten |
Posted - 06/13/2010 : 7:05:59 PM
believe it or not, tracy, i thought about that as well. you do have a point, i concede, but there are too many other variables to make the determination that sl is better calculated in 9. a friend made the argument to me that every ball in 9 ball could be considered as important as an 8 ball in that format because any miss could have anyone's opponent run out. I think I just gave myself a headache.
I think the worst time to have a heart attack would be during a game of charades... or during a game of fake heart attack. |
| TracyW3 |
Posted - 06/11/2010 : 11:14:50 AM
quote:
[i]Originally posted by Torsten[/i]
[br]Tracy, I'm not sure that players are more accurately ranked in 9 ball. The game is different dynamically and margin of victory is relevant, whereas in 8 ball, it doesn't matter if you rackless your opponent or barely squeak out a win. I defeated a SL2 in regionals (luckily i might add) who went on 6 runs of 3 balls or more during our match, including one of 5 balls, and two of 4. In 9 ball, she would have murdered me with points.
The reason I say it favors lower players is that several things do not come into play. Many newer players suffer from 8ball itis, or a severe nervousness before shooting the 8 because everything rides on that shot. In 9 ball, anything is worth points. Additionally, any ball you slop in after legal contact is worth a point, and you get to keep shooting. There is no penalty for dropping the 9 early. On the contrary, there's a two point reward plus the break. In 8 ball, if you hang a ball, it doesn't translate directly into an easy shot for your opponent, where in 9 ball, it almost unfailingly does.
And for the record, I am not complaining about this. I actually agree that the higher player should have to work slightly harder.
While your thought that 9ball is more accurately ranked is not necessarily one I agree with, that doesn't mean it's not right though. You have 3 additional levels of rating for players. Not sure if that makes it more accurate, less, or no difference. But anyhoo, that brings another of my novels to an end
I think the worst time to have a heart attack would be during a game of charades... or during a game of fake heart attack.
Torsten - Your example of what happened at the Regionals kinda helps my point. 8ball scoring can't calculate a player's ability as successfully as 9ball can. In 8ball, if a player can run out all of their respective balls but gets too nervous to put in an 8 and looses all of their matches... Should they be a two? I don't think so, my understanding is that people should be ranked based on their abilities, and in this case the player can make the 8 they just don't. In 9ball you can determine how many balls, on average, a player makes per inning. I believe that is a better judge of a players true abilities and why I think 9ball has a more accurate handicapping system, not because of the extra SLs.
But maybe the SL's in 8ball and 9ball shouldn't be relative. They ARE to different games and in APA they are played with two different goals in mind. I would be interested in knowing the # or percentage of people who have different skill levels in both 8 and 9ball. |
| Torsten |
Posted - 06/10/2010 : 6:56:25 PM
Tracy, I'm not sure that players are more accurately ranked in 9 ball. The game is different dynamically and margin of victory is relevant, whereas in 8 ball, it doesn't matter if you rackless your opponent or barely squeak out a win. I defeated a SL2 in regionals (luckily i might add) who went on 6 runs of 3 balls or more during our match, including one of 5 balls, and two of 4. In 9 ball, she would have murdered me with points.
The reason I say it favors lower players is that several things do not come into play. Many newer players suffer from 8ball itis, or a severe nervousness before shooting the 8 because everything rides on that shot. In 9 ball, anything is worth points. Additionally, any ball you slop in after legal contact is worth a point, and you get to keep shooting. There is no penalty for dropping the 9 early. On the contrary, there's a two point reward plus the break. In 8 ball, if you hang a ball, it doesn't translate directly into an easy shot for your opponent, where in 9 ball, it almost unfailingly does.
And for the record, I am not complaining about this. I actually agree that the higher player should have to work slightly harder.
While your thought that 9ball is more accurately ranked is not necessarily one I agree with, that doesn't mean it's not right though. You have 3 additional levels of rating for players. Not sure if that makes it more accurate, less, or no difference. But anyhoo, that brings another of my novels to an end
I think the worst time to have a heart attack would be during a game of charades... or during a game of fake heart attack. |
| TracyW3 |
Posted - 06/08/2010 : 5:37:26 PM
:( Phil never responded about my custom poker chip idea... **Sniffle** |
| movistar |
Posted - 06/08/2010 : 10:57:52 AM
to all the people who are reading this thread and those trying to come up with workable solutions THANK you!!
as in ANY suggestion I make.. they are not set in stone as the SOLUTION .. each one needs to be talked about and "fine tuned" to meet the needs of the league and players. it is interesting that this thread has been read over a 1000 times probably because of the title.. that means there are a lot of people interested in the
"9 ball score sheets". lets continue to try to make valuable changes..... have a great day and thanks for ALL the input....
anybody interested in a NEW topic.(maybe making the APA a "call pocket" league since there is so much discussion about "SKILL" level lets make it a "SKILL game", do away with S L O P !!)just a thought ! |
| iampato |
Posted - 05/10/2010 : 09:06:03 AM
I didn't read every post too much time. so sorry if I repeat what has been said.
I have played against teams that created these forms on their own. they are color coded, and really look nice. for the rare instance the discrepencies occur, I would prefer to keep things as they are. The forms are no use to anyone but the score keeper, and team using them. the can be used to track a players skill, as any box score would.
When all else fails... Get your butt up, your chin will follow. |
| josepha |
Posted - 05/06/2010 : 3:59:14 PM
As a "trial" I took the 9-Ball Score Sheet and added the numbers suggested by movistar. I actually got 10 sets in without a problem. A copy of this modified form was sent to the League Operators. It is an interesting idea...
AMJ |
| TracyW3 |
Posted - 05/05/2010 : 6:57:19 PM
Movistar – I would like to start off by saying thank you for trying to improve our scoring system and for being open to different ideas, I am a big fan of making changes for the better. That being said I see your Idea taking up A LOT more space on the score sheet. We have to keep in mind that we are keeping score for both players… So the max isn’t 75 it’s technically 149 since the players can’t BOTH reach 75. And we also have to consider racks that end after 1 or 2 balls, you would be wasting space with all those dead balls. I would keep the score sheet pretty much the way it is but if a change was made, I would make the tally area shorter and put in a row of boxes above or below each player’s tallies for people who want to can write in the ball# (and all their little notes).
Personally I am 50/50 on writing down the number of each ball. I would like to consider myself a pretty good score keeper… I pay attention to the game; defensive shots, the layout of the table, and the potential need for a time out, etc. That being said if someone slops in a ball I don’t always see what it is and taking the time to figure it out can sometimes cause you to miss something like marking an inning, and not everyone can see where the balls are coming out all the time. Unless you are playing a really aggressive team that doesn’t score well and likes to argue about it, I really don’t think it helps that much.
However…
After hearing Phil’s idea about the poker chips I had a visual of South Coast Teams going to Nationals with their own South Coast APA branded Custom 9-Ball Scoring Chips. Wouldn’t that be cool!! So I did a little research on custom chips and it wouldn’t cost that much to equip the whole area with those chips. (About $6.36 a set and that’s for the really cool non-label ones with DuraChip) Obviously there are minimum orders but we would qualify. And seriously if you don’t want to do this I will have to find a backer and sell sets myself. LOL!
Jeff Burkhammer – I hate 8-Ball because I choke. LOL. Not all the time but I think I was a two for a little while in 8-ball. Eeek!
Torsten - I think people are more accurately ranked in 9-ball. Every shot counts and although a higher ranked player seems to have a disadvantage in 9-ball a lower ranked player will have a harder time moving around the table. The key to 9-ball is que ball control and that’s not that easy!
Lyrad – I am stealing some of your scoring methods. I especially like the X connecting the points for the 9-ball. Very helpful! Thanks.
Wow this was long but this is an interesting topic! Thanks again Movistar for getting our brains going! Gotta go play now :D
-Tracy- |
| Torsten |
Posted - 04/30/2010 : 8:40:44 PM
For the record, I think the way the score is done is very fair. Although I do think the lower ranked players have a better shot in 9 ball. In 9 ball, your opponent is playing the same ball as you are. Therefore, if you rattle and hang a ball, that's a duck for your opponent. In 8 ball, if you rattle a ball, your opponent has to shoot at the opposite suit.
Again, not a criticism. Just an observation. You could conversely argue that safeties are easier to play in 9 ball because your opponent will have only one ball to shoot at instead of options in an entire suit. Just thought this might add some fuel to the conversation. :)
I think the worst time to have a heart attack would be during a game of charades... or during a game of fake heart attack. |
| D-RACK |
Posted - 04/27/2010 : 1:34:18 PM
Dad - Send me a copy... i wanna see what you are thinking.
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| josepha |
Posted - 04/27/2010 : 09:46:10 AM
I just emailed the League Office a copy of a modified score sheet to reflect this idea...
AMJ |
| lyrad |
Posted - 04/26/2010 : 1:35:16 PM
I have been scoring the way Phil described for a while now. I write the ball numbers above the dots on the score sheet and an X connecting the two points for the 9ball. I also add a twist for myself. I connect the dots for every ball made per turn and put parens around balls made on the break and slop/luck shots. That way I can quickly see that the SL3 on the other team is consistently running 5 balls in a row while the SL7 on my team is slop-ing every shot.
It really helps when there is a discrepancy in score and I can say Joe made the (3)-1-2,(5)-6 and mike made the 4,7-8-9. It resolves arguments real quick.
So, in the example above Joe made the 3 on the break and ran the 1 and 2, then Mike made the 4, then Joe slopped the 5 in and then made the 6, finally Mike ran the 7, 8 and 9 to end the rack.
Yes, I have to write really small but It helps me keep track.
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| Taz |
Posted - 04/16/2010 : 03:35:06 AM
quote:
[i]Originally posted by Calcwby4u[/i]
[br]Taz ... Just a question to follow your options. If no one wants to give in, is it an option just to play the complete rack over again? Going back to the point on the scoresheet where everyone was in agreement, and replay ???????
Yes. |
| Phil |
Posted - 04/15/2010 : 9:18:28 PM
I would say that in 8-Ball, bad rolls or minor mistakes (a miss, bad position, or even a scratch) are not as costly against the lower-level players as they are in 9-Ball. When those things happen in 8-Ball, you can recover and still win the game, preventing the other player from making any progress at all toward winning the match. That is not the case in 9-Ball. Even if a mistake costs you only a point or two, those points are progress toward winning for the lower-level player.
The same is true for luck shots. Luck shots rarely affect the outcome of a game (or match) in 8-Ball, but in 9-Ball the extra points from luck shots can make a big difference.
On the other hand, you can make a critical mistake in 8-Ball (S8 or E8) and the lower-level player is halfway toward winning the match. Make two of them and the match is over. If the higher-level player can avoid these critical mistakes and recover from the minor mistakes, it's easier for them to win the 8-Ball match.
Phil
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| Jeff Burkhammer |
Posted - 04/15/2010 : 5:16:49 PM
Not so rare if you name is CAROLINE...lol, sorry babe!! Really though, it wasnt a big concern, just thought it would simplify things on scoring...But I must say, I feel it much easier for a lower SL(2-3) to beat a higher SL (6-9)in 9 ball than in 8 ball, because of point format..which is cool, but, 8 ball seems like a tougher deal..do your stats show this to be true, or false when low sl meets high sl? Or do they about ring the same in 8 and 9?
When your green you grow, when your ripe you rot. |
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