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Calcwby4u
USA
89 Posts |
 Posted - 08/22/2009 : 9:18:56 PM
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Here is a link to the National APA website that discusses many different applications of the use and marking of such shots. Maybe if more of us looked at this video and become aware of what a defensive shot is, some of the SL of the players you think are "sandbagging" would be adjusted by the SYSTEM.
http://www.youtube.com/apaleagues#play/uploads/1/wzfvYHM3CEs |
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Keith
USA
242 Posts |
Posted - 08/22/2009 : 10:27:37 PM
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| In the video he says that you have to look at the leave to call it a d. In the bank example he calls it a d if the cue ball doesn't come around for the 8. I don't agree with that because I would play a d on the 8 to both knock it out and bring the cue back down table. If I got lucky I would also hook them behind the 8. So I would want the 2 to drop and the cue to be left up table to leave me a margin of error. If I were to miss I would not want my opponent to run out. There is such a thing as a two way shot and he does not go over that. He just calls it a d by scorers judgment instead of bringing in the possibility of a two way shot. |
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Showtime
USA
73 Posts |
Posted - 08/23/2009 : 10:01:09 AM
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Simply, a defensive shot is defined (in the rule book) as a any shot where there is no intent to sink one of your balls.
There was a person in our league that wanted to call any kick shot a defensive. This isn't true most of the time, when I take a kick shot, I am trying to make the ball I am kicking at (not defensive). There are times though when I kick at a ball, when all I'm trying to do is make a legal shot and not trying to make a ball (defensive).
2-way shots are not defensive if the intent of the shooter was to make their ball.
What is intent? No intent is absolute. Therefore, intent goes to the limit just before no intent.
i.e.
0% trying to make a shot = no intent (defensive)
0.0000001% trying to make a shot = intent (not defensive) add as many 0's before the 1 that you want and there is still intent. |
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Calcwby4u
USA
89 Posts |
Posted - 08/23/2009 : 12:00:00 PM
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| When I saw the topic on the National site, I thought of oh so many Captain's & the one or two players on their teams that do the scorekeeping who DON'T EVEN MARK DEFENSIVE SHOTS. The reason I've heard from them verbatim, "you don't want to mark them because your SL will go up." If the other team is MARKING them, then when the scoresheets get to the League Office, someone is going to notice and something done. As long as the Captain's and the scorekeepers are aware of "intent" then they should be marking them. I don't think most players fully understand the rule and are thereby skewing the system. I also have to say that I very seldom hear a higher skill level player call a defensive shot on him/her self. YOU know what YOUR INTENT WAS, so call it. |
Edited by - Calcwby4u on 08/23/2009 12:00:39 PM |
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Keith
USA
242 Posts |
Posted - 08/23/2009 : 4:01:53 PM
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| To determine intent takes knowing the player. I am a very offensive minded player and will go for shots that makes others scratch their heads. Sometimes it works and other times it screws me over. But when it works it is so cool. |
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Showtime
USA
73 Posts |
Posted - 09/06/2009 : 10:11:21 AM
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I finally got to take a look at the segment, and some situations are brought up about judgement calls. For example, a SL 5 or above, that misses a shot and claims they were trying to make a shot, but fail to set-up for their next shot, could be a judgement call and a defensive shot. I think it was situations #5 & #8 that caught my interest.
If you haven't sen the video yet, take the time to watch it.
If I disagree with you, it is because I am right. |
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stevelobdell
USA
36 Posts |
Posted - 09/16/2009 : 09:06:37 AM
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Calc - "YOU know what YOUR INTENT WAS, so call it." I Agree 100%. As a scorer in 9-Ball how in the heck am I supposed to know the shooter was making a defensive shot vs. just being a lousy shooter and missing the pocket.
I do not score defensive shots, unless the shooter specifically tells me it was a defensive shot. I am a SL 2, but I make sure that if I shoot a D, I let the scorer know, that was a D-Shot.
As a scorer, I am not a mind-reader, so as I previously stated, if a shooter shoots a D, tell me, otherwise I will just assume if was a lousy shot. |
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Keith
USA
242 Posts |
Posted - 09/16/2009 : 11:06:13 AM
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| You also need to look at if the ball was hit hard enough to get to a pocket. You can't always expect the other player to call out their D. I don't do it all the time and that is because I can really get into the match sometimes. It is also usually better to have a highly rated player near the person scoring to let them know what they believe was a D. |
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BigRigTom
USA
102 Posts |
Posted - 09/16/2009 : 11:45:22 AM
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stevelobdell....based on your comments it sounds like you have not watched that video, or maybe you have totally missed the point of the video.
stevelobdell and ALL Skill levels 1, 2 & 3 who keep score are the very folks who can learn a lot watching that video.
Most skill level 4 and up should already understand by watching a shot whether the shooter was intending to make the shot, or he was playing defensively or if he just made a lousy shot....of course there are always those who are the exceptions too.
I learned from watching that video so I would venture to say most people if they watch with a desire to learn will also pickup a point or two.
It is to everyones benefit to score a match correctly and intentionally NOT scoring correctly should be penalized by the league.
BigRigTom
http://hardingersystems.com/BAT-Forum to discuss Billiards and Trucking or anything that interest you! |
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HAVE YOU EVER WONDERED WHAT A DEFENSIVE SHOT IS???
