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D-RACK
USA
321 Posts |
 Posted - 07/16/2010 : 4:31:07 PM
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| If you start your match and you are beating your opponent and they FF the match do you get the top shooter points? |
Edited by - D-RACK on 07/19/2010 08:46:50 AM |
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Taz
USA
555 Posts |
Posted - 07/16/2010 : 4:34:39 PM
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| No. Incomplete matches do not get scored. They can seriously affect skill levels unjustly. The match is recorded as any other forfeit. Neither player gets credit for anything. |
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stevelobdell
USA
36 Posts |
Posted - 07/18/2010 : 3:53:56 PM
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| What reasons would a player FF during a match? |
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The Hunter
9 Posts |
Posted - 07/18/2010 : 7:51:20 PM
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This happened to me a few sessions ago and it was very frustrating to have happen. No MVP points and I still had to pay. The loss of the points also kept me from going to the top shooter tournament. Needless to say I wasn't very happy! Hope this doesn't happen to you D-Rack.
In my case I felt the individual didn't want the loss on his record because he was leading the 2-3 tier at the time. He also didn't want to shoot against me but his captain wanted him to. |
Edited by - The Hunter on 07/18/2010 10:47:15 PM |
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D-RACK
USA
321 Posts |
Posted - 07/18/2010 : 11:56:14 PM
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My Opponent was a 5 and I am a 7 he was down 3-0, his APA reputation is a jerk in my opinion but thats besides the point, We were in the 4th game and i was pulling the balls out of the table when he slammed the rack into my Q on the table. I asked him politely to please be careful and he replied keep my stick off the table,(Rudely) I said hey get the balls yourself.....I was just trying to help....
He then proceed to call me a ****ing Asshole....Along with some other choice words....I laughed and walked over to his Captain and said please speak to your player...(All the time he is still cursing at me...) I told the other captain that I would play the match if he talked to his player to calm him down. His player then threaten to kick my ass outside. My Dad (The Captain of the team) would not allow this situation to escalate and told me to put my Q away and call the LO.
I went out with the opposing team captain and called the LO explained the situation, I then put the other captain on the phone with Taz and was told my match was over and he had FF.
We returned into the bar where the other player was told to leave the premisses by the Taz and before he did he told me that he was going to ****ing Kick me ass and Screamed throughout the BAR the i was a nothing more then a ***** a punk and a asshole. Keeping my cool for the first time cause he is not worth it I let him scream and leave... But not before he insulted my Dad. ( Trust me I have patience, but now I am pissed!) My father looked me in the eyes and said it not worth it! I agreed and smiled. (Bare in mind neither player was drinking at all so there was no I was drunk excuse)
After the player left he actually dropped his pool case in the parking lot and I let his captain know that his player might of dropped his stick. The Captain of the other team apologized to me through out the night and to my Dad cause his player was out of LINE and everyone knew it.
I called the LO back to ask if i needed signed statement from his team and mine regarding the situation, and i was told "Its Handled" Nothing more. I have since requested from the LO a further answer on this situation and Notified the Camarillo police Dept. that he threatened bodily harm to me and my Dad the next time he sees us. If any of you know me i am covering my bases because this guy isn't worth the time.
I care about playing pool my teams are 90% family and I play on 3 night a week. I expected a reply from the LO privately and am still waiting. But I will not tolerate threats to my family or myself, I expected to see him removed from the League due to the APA policy of u threaten or fight and your kicked out. I was surprised to see his name still on 3 active rosters, this weekend and still no reply from the LO.
Either 1 of 2 things are gonna happen, He will get his wish and try to fight me....or he will be allowed to stay in the league and I will therefore resign and take any and every person I know with me.
Plane and simply I followed the APA rules regarding 0 tolerance this player even shoved me. I walked away calm cool and collective I spend many of night in the APA, but i will not let this level of disrespect go,
I wonder if this post will be critiqued. What i am saying is 100% the facts and I feel that my judgment in what I did considering the level of disrespect this person showed me and my FATHER.
I have chosen to leave his name and Team out of the post because SLANDER is not why I am putting this.
Sincerely
Derrick Adrian |
Edited by - D-RACK on 07/19/2010 09:35:47 AM |
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Moose Dragon
USA
128 Posts |
Posted - 07/19/2010 : 08:11:20 AM
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Hey Derrick,
Sorry this happened to you. My guess is the situation will be put in front of the BOG. They will decide what is to happen. I am suprised that you and anyone there were not asked to write an account of what happened. Be patient Taz and Phil will take care of it. |
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The Hunter
9 Posts |
Posted - 07/19/2010 : 08:22:10 AM
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My match was very similar as yours. Neither of us had been drinking so no excuse there (I don't drink). I am a 5 he was a 3 and we were playing 9-ball. It started out by him throwing the Q ball in the air, he tried to catch it, missed it, landed on the table and it hit my Q. I politely asked him to be careful that he hit my Q. He said something under his breath and I replied that I value my Q and there is no reason to be tossing the Q ball in the air anyway. As the match went on he started sharking me and wouldn't back away from the table when I was shooting. My captain said something to his captain about what he was doing and asked him to stop acting up while I was shooting. This seemed to make him even madder. I was able to block him out and my lead grew and grew and he started missing everything he shot at. At one point he left the table mad, went out front slapping the front window on the way out obviously upset because he wasn't getting to me. When he came back to the table he was mad. Said I don't want to play you anymore, in fact "I want to go out back and kick your ass". I almost lost it but it wasn't worth it to me to go out back with this asshole. I told him to back down now and to get out of my face. The establishment told him to leave. The establishment kicked him out for 3 weeks. I called TAZ and filled out a sportsmanship incident form and made a complaint about his team captain because he did nothing to control his player. His captain said I caused it because I said something to him about throwing the Q ball and hitting my Q with it.
Numerous people saw what occured and were upset with him & his captain. And were calming me during the match. I come to play pool not fight! And I expect others to do the same with out threatening me with violence! I am a captain and have been for many years and I know it is my responsibility as a captain to control my players.
I also waited for the league to do something to this person and never heard anything back. He was not kicked out of the league to my surprise! I almost quit the league because nothing was done to him. I chose not to because of my love for the game. I am not a fighter but will not tolerate this from any player or captain. His captain didn't think he was responsible to do anything about his player.
Before he was allowed back in the establishment (Stix in Ventura) the owner met with him,me and his captain and clearly told his captain that he was responsible for the conduct of his players and that turning his face was to it was not okay. There was never any issue after that again. |
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Phil
USA
829 Posts |
Posted - 07/19/2010 : 11:05:29 AM
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Both of you guys need to get your facts straight. We don't appreciate you posting in this public forum inaccuracies about how these issues were handled. Derrick, I don't know how often you check your email, but I sent you a reply Saturday morning. In your team envelope tonight (and in the envelope of last week's opponent) are smaller envelopes, one for every member of the team. Inside each envelope is a request for that person to give us their version of what happened that night. The Board of Governors will be reviewing it.
Greg, for your information, the Board of Governors did review your incident. In fact, I believe Kerry was at that meeting, and put your opponent's comment about kicking your ass into perspective for us. The guy was actually restraining himself by forfeiting. I personally spoke with the owner of the location and the bartender who was working that night, and we got write-ups from multiple people. Your opponent and his captain both got letters from us as a result, probably saying pretty much exactly what the location owner said in your pow-wow. Sounds like they got the message.
Just because we don't publicly flog sportsmanship offenders, it doesn't mean the situations aren't being handled. You guys might want to check your facts before you come on here and play victim. Yes, I said play victim. Both of you are very good at pushing buttons then crying foul when someone reacts. Players don't just fly off the handle when you politely mention something to them, unless the thing you politely say is "touch my cue again and I'll f___ you up." Reportedly, one of you said that, albeit politely. I'm sure you'll both deny it.
Phil
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D-RACK
USA
321 Posts |
Posted - 07/19/2010 : 11:43:47 AM
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Phil,
If a email was sent out I apologize i didn't receive it or it got caught in my spam filter. (Checking Now)
As far as posting in public form my thoughts were this is what the message board is for, so other divisions can discus situation and how they are handled and talk.
As far as Greg situation I cant speak for him, but I can deny your statement "touch my cue again and I'll f___ you up." cause I didn't threaten anyone. So if you know who said it I surely don't appreciate you accusing me.
I will wait till this evening and see the paperwork before I reply further.
Phil gotta have a place for members to discuses situation without fear of repercussion. Simply put Moose Dragon response was exactly perfect. He was correct in his reply the BOG is handling it. That in its self is nice to have people reply.
Greg's reply was nice cause he had the similar situation arise in other divisions, and it shows that these are handled.
note: EMAIL was in spam folder.
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Moose Dragon
USA
128 Posts |
Posted - 07/19/2010 : 1:49:36 PM
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Yeah I was at that BOG meeting. I remember being talked into acting out the unique characteristics of the individual we were discussing. That was fairly embarrasing. The one thing you can count on is that the BOG takes these discussions and subsequent actions very seriously. Some of these meetings take several hours. As far as I am concerned, all of the actions taken against individuals in the meetings I attended were fair and proportionate to the offense.
If someone tells you they are going to kick your ass, should they be kicked out of the league? I don't think so, but I do believe they should be told that it will not be tolerated, and if they continue then they should go. This is just my opinion. |
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Phil
USA
829 Posts |
Posted - 07/19/2010 : 2:00:53 PM
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Derrick,
I don't believe for a second that you're here to simply discuss an issue and get opinions from other people. You're pushing. You didn't think you were getting what you expected, so you decided to make noise and look for sympathy.
Besides, who said anything about repercussions? I'm just participating in the discussion, telling you what I think. I think you push buttons and issues as far as you can. Do you want me to pull together everyone in Camarillo and ask them who thinks Derrick likes to push buttons?
I'm also setting the record straight, so those who read this forum don't think we don't pay attention to sportsmanship issues as you and Greg claim.
As for accusing, I didn't accuse either of you of anything. I said it was reported to us that one of you said that. I won't say which of you reportedly said it. But if you want, here's something that YOU reportedly said - you told a guy to "Man Up", then asked him to step outside. Kind of the same thing that happened to you last week, don't you think? Should we have kicked you out for that? Every situation is different, and you have to wait for the BOG to get to the bottom of what actually transpired.
Phil
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D-RACK
USA
321 Posts |
Posted - 07/19/2010 : 2:51:08 PM
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Phil i dont need sympathy so as far as that goes lets set that straight.
Yes I would love to see you take a poll.....
Thats a joke........
Your input of my charter is sorely mistaken if you think I like to push peoples button for a rise. At least I know where i stand now.
Man - Up on a ruling situation and admit that he was wrong, is far from telling a player Iam gonna kick your ass.
I asked that player to step outside so we didn't bother the match in progress..Get your facts straight ....He and I weren't in a match.
That issue was brought in-front of the BOG??? Really thats funny I was never notified nor my team or given a chance to defend my self as you are so politely doing (By the way i was the person who called the LO for a ruling that night and informed the LO that i asked him to step outside to discus the situation and not bother the other 4 teams playing in the room....
But thats old ****....
Are you ever wrong or do u ever admit to mistakes.....? How can you sit here and say i am looking for sympathy. I am simply stating what happened. So when said player walks up to me and tries to kick my ass i am sure i will be kicked out of the league for self defense. Either way i am not going to be disrespected by Him the BOG or LO.
Derrick
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Edited by - D-RACK on 07/19/2010 2:52:53 PM |
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sunnicagrl
18 Posts |
Posted - 07/19/2010 : 3:49:38 PM
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Okay... I'm sure we will wait around and get 10 different stories about what transpired last week, but some truths.
1. We pay to play in a pool league that is governed and owned. There are rules that we all need to play by and there is no gray area when it comes to my family's safety!! If some guy wants to threaten others, that is not acceptable. Are we going to come out to play knowing confrontation is around the next corner?
2. SO what if my husband pushes buttons! Pushing ones buttons, joking around, questioning life....are not against the rules/law! Why must you always put down my husband and his personality? Why can't there be a simple answer ever given without a verbal backlash? I bet we can find 20 people who think I'm too loud, but relevance?
3. Consequences! I raise my child to believe that in life there are choices we make and rules that must be followed. Why give us a handbook and guidelines that mean nothing unless?? How far does this man have to go? I guess we have to wait until we are physically attacked....I don't think so!
I know stories, life, and people are not perfect....but I'm hoping this situation is dealt with quickly and appropriately. We are in the pool league to have fun, support our local bars, and hang out with friends. None of this can occur when people are causing unsafe situations for all of us!
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The Hunter
9 Posts |
Posted - 07/19/2010 : 4:25:39 PM
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Phil,
I apologize if I came across as implying the league doesn't do anything about sportsmanship write ups.
I will go on the record to say that, I was the one accused of saying politely that I will f--- you up if you touch my Q. And just so you have the facts, THAT WAS A BLATANT LIE intended to justify that persons actions!!!! I also told the person who told me that, the same thing during our pow wow. A person who doesn't and is afraid to fight won't make the comment someone told you I made!!!! Next time just say it was me instead of letting Derreck think that you meant him.
Another fact. After asking him to be more carefull with the Q ball he actually said he was sorry, we shook hands and I accepted it as a done deal and nothing else was said about it other than he tried to shake my hand 3 or 4 more times as we played and I said it was done dude, let me shoot my game. You and whoever told you this are wrong! All I can say is why didn't he say anything or quit at the time instead of doing it at the end of the match when he was losing so bad?
I also feel the outcome was appropriate and at the time of our pow wow I assumed that somehow your input was given to the owner and yes there has not been an issue since. I really never heard from anyone else.
Lastly If you think I did this to push anyone's buttons or if you think I like pushing peoples buttons you are sadly mistaken and you really don't know me. Now I know what you really think of me.
Thank you for your time and allowing me to use YOUR forum to speak the facts.
Greg |
Edited by - The Hunter on 07/19/2010 6:12:49 PM |
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Phil
USA
829 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2010 : 12:24:22 AM
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quote:
[i]Originally posted by sunnicagrl[/i]
[br]Okay... I'm sure we will wait around and get 10 different stories about what transpired last week, but some truths.
1. We pay to play in a pool league that is governed and owned. There are rules that we all need to play by and there is no gray area when it comes to my family's safety!! If some guy wants to threaten others, that is not acceptable. Are we going to come out to play knowing confrontation is around the next corner?
It's been a week. Do you think he's going to confront you now? If so, then I don't think it matters whether he's in the league or not. What do you want us to do, kick him out of Camarillo? California?
As I recall (and I was sitting right across the desk from her at the time), Taz got the call and was told the guy called Derrick the female genitals word, then asked him to step outside. She asked to speak with his captain, who basically confirmed what Derrick told us. She then told the other captain to send his player home, the match was over. How much more quickly can the immediate situation be dealt with?
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2. SO what if my husband pushes buttons! Pushing ones buttons, joking around, questioning life....are not against the rules/law! Why must you always put down my husband and his personality? Why can't there be a simple answer ever given without a verbal backlash? I bet we can find 20 people who think I'm too loud, but relevance?
Um, a simple answer was given. See Taz's reply to his initial post, which he chose to post here instead of asking us directly. A reply to his email was also given, before he went on his rant about not getting a reply from us and expecting the guy to be kicked out and being surprised that he's still listed on three teams and one of two things is gonna happen and he's gonna quit and take everyone he knows with him. What question did he want a simple answer to?
Derrick pushes buttons (just as he has in this thread) and sometimes he pisses people off. Do you really need to ask how that's relevant to someone threatening him? Sure, most of the time it's in jest, but that's easy to misinterpret.
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3. Consequences! I raise my child to believe that in life there are choices we make and rules that must be followed. Why give us a handbook and guidelines that mean nothing unless??
Mean nothing? I strongly urge you to take that handbook and turn to Section 8, which begins on page 77. Specifically, take a look at the top of page 79. What part of that paragraph wasn't followed? We declared the match a forfeit IMMEDIATELY and had the guy's captain send him home, thus removing the threat and any unfair competitive advantage the other team might have had. We followed the book to a T.
Now read the next part about follow-up actions. That's what the BOG does. That process is underway, and it takes a little bit of time to (1)collect all the versions of the events and (2)get enough BOG members together to discuss them and take action. That doesn't happen in a few days. It takes a few weeks.
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How far does this man have to go? I guess we have to wait until we are physically attacked....I don't think so!
I don't think I understand what you mean by this. What are you waiting for?
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I know stories, life, and people are not perfect....but I'm hoping this situation is dealt with quickly and appropriately. We are in the pool league to have fun, support our local bars, and hang out with friends. None of this can occur when people are causing unsafe situations for all of us!
It will be dealt with appropriately, but we're not rushing to any judgement until we have all the versions. You can't kick someone out because someone called and said he threatened them. The first version of an event, though probably true, usually doesn't contain the entire truth. You have to piece it together, and the BOG usually does a pretty good job with what they have.
Phil
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Phil
USA
829 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2010 : 01:38:28 AM
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quote:
[i]Originally posted by D-RACK[/i]
[br]Man - Up on a ruling situation and admit that he was wrong, is far from telling a player Iam gonna kick your ass.
I asked that player to step outside so we didn't bother the match in progress..Get your facts straight ....He and I weren't in a match.
But if all we hear is "He told me to man up, then asked me to step outside", how are we to know the difference? What you said on the phone last week was "He called me a p____, and asked me to step outside." If you expect us to kick the guy out of the league for that, then certainly you would have to expect us to kick you out when we heard the same thing said about you. My point was that there's usually a little more to it, and we don't normally rush to judgement before trying to find out what that more is.
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That issue was brought in-front of the BOG??? Really thats funny I was never notified nor my team or given a chance to defend my self as you are so politely doing (By the way i was the person who called the LO for a ruling that night and informed the LO that i asked him to step outside to discus the situation and not bother the other 4 teams playing in the room....
Actually, I think you're thinking of a different time that you asked a guy to step outside. And if you're not, then you're definitely leaving out a few details. My point had nothing to do with that specific incident, though. I was just explaining what could happen if we started kicking people out of the league based on one accusation and no investigation. But if you really want a chance to defend yourself, we can have the BOG review these other incidents, too. 
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But thats old ****....
Are you ever wrong or do u ever admit to mistakes.....? How can you sit here and say i am looking for sympathy. I am simply stating what happened.
Nobody here asked you what happened. If you weren't looking for sympathy, why post the long, drawn-out version of what happened and how surprised you were that he hadn't already been kicked out and how your attempts to communicate with us have been unsuccessful? Why not just say "The league office made him forfeit and leave because he physically threatened me."
So the following statements, from your long post, are simply what happened?
"his APA reputation is a jerk in my opinion but thats besides the point"
"Either 1 of 2 things are gonna happen, He will get his wish and try to fight me....or he will be allowed to stay in the league and I will therefore resign and take any and every person I know with me."
"I wonder if this post will be critiqued."
No, these are juicy little pearls intended to generate sympathy (first and third quote) and push buttons (second and third quote).
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So when said player walks up to me and tries to kick my ass i am sure i will be kicked out of the league for self defense.
Like I told Steph, if the guy wants to walk up to you and try to kick your ass, he doesn't need the league to do it. If you managed to get him that worked up, maybe you don't WANT him to get kicked out - imagine how he'd feel then.
Phil
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Player FF Sprotsmanship
