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ValleyMast
36 Posts |
 Posted - 12/12/2009 : 10:41:41 PM
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I understand that the BOG assists the league operators in their decisions regarding the times that certain members need to be repremanded. However... is there a section on the website that after the parties have been notified where it could be posted what the decision is. There are always so many "rumors" which float around. And we know that the offices "hates" rumors...so why not post what's the deal... Also it would serve as a warning to those who might think about trying to go against the rules. Just a suggestion. |
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Moose Dragon
USA
128 Posts |
Posted - 12/13/2009 : 09:33:08 AM
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When the BOG has to get together the transgressions that were perpetrated were very obvious and usually fairly severe. So most often the people involved were aware they were doing something that would be frowned upon, and the vast majority of people that play in the SouthCoast APA know not to step over these particular lines.
I think it would be a bad idea to post results anywhere. It would cause embarrasment, hurt feelings, and possibly a worse attitude from the people involved.
Nothing will ever stop rumors. |
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ValleyMast
36 Posts |
Posted - 12/13/2009 : 6:59:30 PM
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| why shouldn't we (as players know)...those in the valley NEVER know what goes on up north and I'm sure vice versa. I've been in BOG meetings where people up north say who's that and what's their deal. Why is it a bad thing to see that our league operators are doing their job and cracking down on things? It might encourage people to write people up for things which have been tolerated because the belief is that NOTHING will be done. There's a lot that goes as "gossip" and is NEVER written because no body has the guts. So why not know what our BOG does... in the national book is says..."please accept the BOG rulings." How can I accept something if I have no idea what they are? Just a thought. |
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movistar
193 Posts |
Posted - 12/14/2009 : 10:47:22 AM
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ok... I post a lot of times and ruffle some feathers...usually from the ones that are guilty but I am NOT talking to them....
now it is YOUR turn to yell at me... what does BOG stand for ????
now... everybody all at once.. B O G stands for...... now I feel stupid... have a happy holiday |
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Calcwby4u
USA
89 Posts |
Posted - 12/14/2009 : 4:01:48 PM
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BOG - BOARD OF GOVERNORS
Made up of the Division Reps and League Operators I believe. |
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Taz
USA
555 Posts |
Posted - 12/15/2009 : 02:44:14 AM
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ValleyMast, your "understanding" is incorrect. The Board of Governors (BOG) does NOT assist the League Operators.
As League Operators it is our responsability to gather as much information as possible when an incident is reported (in writing) that warrants it. We request input from each member of the teams involved in the incident, often times go out and interview bar staff and speak to other league members that were in attendance. We then convene the BOG and share all the information with the BOG, including any previous incidents by any of the parties involved. The matter is then put in the BOG's hands.
The members of the BOG take this part of their duties as Division Reps very seriously. They will discuss all the available information, review it from all possible angles, one or two will take the roll of "devil's advocate" in an attempt to piece together what occured and what led up to it. The Rules of Conduct in the Official APA Team Manual are reviewed and then it is THE BOG that decides on what sanctions will be handed out, if any.
It is then the job of the League Operators to enforce the decisions reached by the BOG. While the League Operators are a higher authority than the board, the APA has asked League Operators to uphold the findings of the BOG unless they are in direct violation of APA league rules or policies.
In conclusion, all protest, disputes and sportsmanship complaints are reviewed by your peers. THEY decide, we follow up.
There is more detailed informaton on the Board of Governors both in the Official APA Team Manual (pg. 10) and under the "league info" link on this site. |
Edited by - Taz on 12/15/2009 02:46:07 AM |
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ValleyMast
36 Posts |
Posted - 12/16/2009 : 12:10:46 PM
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Oh Contre...on page 10 it does SAY. The Board is there to "ASSIST" the league operators....
But that's not the point...the points...could you please even if it is Player X committed offense A and received penatly B in Divison Y. I don't really care but I'd like to know what's going on instead of having to hear three verisions of the truth and when I call to find out I can't find out. Case in point I had a BOG member ask me two days ago what was the final decision in a recent case since he didn't know....I was like WHAT!!!!!! that's why I posted what I did. |
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Taz
USA
555 Posts |
Posted - 12/16/2009 : 6:11:54 PM
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quote:
[i]Originally posted by ValleyMast[/i]
[br]Oh Contre...on page 10 it does SAY. The Board is there to "ASSIST" the league operators....
But that's not the point...the points...could you please even if it is Player X committed offense A and received penatly B in Divison Y. I don't really care but I'd like to know what's going on instead of having to hear three verisions of the truth and when I call to find out I can't find out. Case in point I had a BOG member ask me two days ago what was the final decision in a recent case since he didn't know....I was like WHAT!!!!!! that's why I posted what I did.
You have chosen to take this part out of context. The BOG "assists" league operators in all types of matters (i.e. voting on new policies, distributing information to the players in their divisions, presenting trophies, just to name a few); however, not so in sportsmanship issues.
AND this is how rumors get started. If in fact a BOG member does not know what happened, either that BOG member did not attend the meeting or the meeting was adjourned with a request from the BOG for further investigation, which may or may not have been finalized at this time. Since you chose not to post the BOG member's name, I can't really say what the case might have been.
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Edited by - Taz on 12/16/2009 6:13:57 PM |
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ValleyMast
36 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2009 : 7:13:49 PM
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why would I choose to out a beloved BOG member? Then people would stop talking...
So back to the point.....
why not post it?
We post just about everything else.
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Torsten
USA
401 Posts |
Posted - 12/19/2009 : 9:59:01 PM
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Anna, I can understand that people want to know things. It's my personal opinion that it's better to respect someone's privacy. How does it benefit anyone, apart from satisfying curiosity, to post names and transgressions? All that would accomplish is to increase pointing and whispering, in my opinion of course. Rumors and such spread quickly enough.
I think the worst time to have a heart attack would be during a game of charades... or during a game of fake heart attack. |
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ValleyMast
36 Posts |
Posted - 12/27/2009 : 8:41:12 PM
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Torsten, I didn't want to get specific but I will. Bare in mind that I am using this as an example of the notification problem...
A player recently was told by the "BOG and league operator" that they could not keep score in 9ball starting the next season. The paper says this. Now...please tell me how you tell other captains or co-captains that this is it. Will Taz put it on every team's score sheet that they play? But when you call the office, you are told that if you as the other captain are ok with them keeping score then it's ok. Fine...but how would I know to call the office to ask in the first place unless i "heard" a rumor about it. There is no notification for that. When a player is suspended, then Taz is able to put that little * thingie which means call before you allow the other team to play them, if you don't it's your own fault. Sometimes people will ratt out the reason for the suspension. My problem is that you play a team and some one has attitude or issues with another player and you get hit with it from left field and it causes a problem, you're like why didn't anyone tell me. Having been a captain, a former League Rep, A BOG member, a national ref (for two other leagues) and a league operator (for another league), players need to be kept in the loop in general. Taz/Phil do an excellant job but this is the first time that I really thought about this. Not everyone goes to the captain's meetings. Not everyone signs on this board (or even regularly). And not everyone plays in the divisions where things happen. Alot of members get told rumors or "what supposidely" happened and BOG's supposed rulings, however, when/where do find out what the actually ruling is? Usually you are told you can't ask unless you are a team captain. What if you are acting captain for the night? What if you are the other scorekeeper? What if your captain is drunk off their ass?
There has to be some compromise. I'm trying to pick on anyone. It's rare that Taz/Phil aren't in the office...but when they aren't there? Who do we call? Everything else is on this wonderfully awesome website or in the materials handed out.... |
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ValleyMast
36 Posts |
Posted - 12/27/2009 : 8:59:57 PM
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oopsss... NOT trying to pick on anyone. Okay hoping off soap box. |
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Keith
USA
242 Posts |
Posted - 12/27/2009 : 11:47:12 PM
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I agree with Torsten on this. What makes my teams issues your business? And vice versa. The only reason I can see for making issues public would be for humiliation and entertainment. There is no way that would make the league any better to be a part of.
When I was suspended they notified my captains and myself that I could not participate in any way beyond showing up and rooting them on. It was up to me to decide if anybody would be told why I was suspended. I told not only each captain of the four teams I was a part of at the time but each member of each of my teams. Three teams had the attitude of that sucks and stood behind me 100%. The other team captain was pissed off at me for being honest with Phil and Taz instead of keeping what happened a secret. The only way I could get in trouble was if I told on myself and I did. That one captain couldn't care less if I was doing something wrong as long as I didn't get caught. If your policy was in place I would not appreciated it being posted and the basic reason why being posted. In being the person that gets to tell people why I was suspended I can tell them the context of what happened. I was suspended due to some misinformation that was given to me.
Insert inspirational sentence here. |
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Torsten
USA
401 Posts |
Posted - 12/31/2009 : 6:21:47 PM
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Anna, I don't recall the specific incident which you are referring to. However, if someone has been told they can't keep score, it's most likely because they weren't doing so in an acceptable fashion. I believe that the captain and the player are notified of this decision. If the player is notified and the captain isn't there, one would hope that the player would abide by the sanction.
Again, I don't speak for everyone, only my own opinion. But personally I wouldn't see a problem in the captain or appropriate representative (vice captain or alternate captain) called the league or a bog member for clarification on a sanction against one of their players. My concern remains in posting it for all to see on the message board.
In your particular example, if I'm understanding you correctly, here's what I recommend. If you've heard that someone on your opponent's team is banned from scoring, and they're sitting there with the card, call the office and ask. If your suspicion is confirmed, discreetly let the other captain know that the particular player is not allowed to be scoring due to concerns that have been raised. Nobody likes to be the A-hole, but it is what it is. Happy new year
I think the worst time to have a heart attack would be during a game of charades... or during a game of fake heart attack. |
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Phil
USA
829 Posts |
Posted - 12/31/2009 : 10:03:33 PM
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This is a perfect example of why we don't publicize sanctions arising from sportsmanship issues. Everyone think for a moment, what if it was you who was told you cannot keep score? Would you want that published for everyone to know? A lot of people would be quite embarrassed by that. Even if it's posted without names, it could be embarrassing. It's the kind of thing that surely would inspire some league-night joking ("watch out, or APA won't let you keep score any more"), quite possibly in the presence of the person to whom it actually happened!
The goal of the BOG is not to embarrass anyone. The Board issues sanctions with the goal of achieving some result. In this particular instance, we had received a number of complaints from people who had difficulty resolving discrepancies between the two score sheets when this person was keeping score. It was a factor in a much larger incident that the Board was discussing. To prevent similar incidents in the future, the Board decided that this person should not keep score in the future. The desired result, of course, is to eliminate the spark that ignited the forest fire, thus preventing similar forest fires in the future.
This person received a letter telling them they were not allowed to score 9-Ball matches unless absolutely necessary. The letter also explained that if they did, and there was an issue that couldn't be resolved with the numbers (11-9 vs 9-11, all the tick marks in the right places on each sheet, for example), we would automatically rule in favor of the other team. That's it. The person has been informed, and knows the consequences. Nobody else needs to know, and more importantly, nobody else need concern themselves with enforcement.
For all we know, this person might score 9-Ball matches from now until eternity, and if there is never an issue, guess what? Mission accomplished, the spark has been eliminated. If the spark resurfaces and there is an issue, it gets snuffed immediately, at which point the BOG can take further corrective action.
I'll give you another example that might strike closer to home for some of you. A couple of years ago, there was a series of conflicts between two players in the league. It seemed that every time these two were in the same room, something would happen and we would get a sportsmanship complaint. It all boiled down to a personality conflict. One of the players, who is a likable fellow, just seems to produce a negative reaction from the other, no matter how innocent the communication between them may be. The Board had us issue warning letters to both players. In addition, the Board asked us to approach the likable fellow and put the responsibility on his shoulders to make sure the two could peacefully coexist for a few hours once or twice a session. Basically, we had to tell him not to say a word besides "hello", and that even saying "hello" was at his own risk. We didn't do this to punish him (though it probably was tough 'cause he talks a lot ), we did it to try to make the problem go away. We asked for his cooperation, got it, and to this day haven't heard a word about an issue between these two players. It worked, but it's just not the kind of thing that needs to be publicized.
Players get friendly reminders and warnings from us regarding minor sportsmanship issues, and the BOG is not involved in the minor stuff. The more serious stuff goes through the Board. Almost all suspension and probation sanctions come from them. Big or small, friendly reminder or permanent suspension, the affected players are always informed in such a way that they can keep it private, should they choose to do so. Publicizing these things will not stop rumors from starting. There will just be different rumors. Everyone enjoys a bit of juicy gossip now and then, right?
Phil
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iampato
USA
71 Posts |
Posted - 07/01/2010 : 08:23:31 AM
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Too many words in this post...
Keith! Finally you say something I can agree with! Jk (but not really)
Is $7 bucks a week worth this much headache?
Phil, Taz, you do a great job! I have played in other apa leagues, and if others had the same experience, they would understand, "Phil and Taz, are doing it right"
Thank you for providing me with, fun, challenge, and the opportunity to play in vegas every year.3 and 4 times a year.
When all else fails... Get your butt up, your chin will follow. |
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BOG Decisions
