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movistar
193 Posts |
 Posted - 05/29/2010 : 5:48:24 PM
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just wanted my teammates to know that I have enjoyed playing with them the past few years, but, thanks to the rediculous 23 rule in 9 ball where there are 8's and 9's... there is NO MATHMATICAL chance for me to play this year and my team also qualified for regionals for the FIRST time and I will not be able to play with them....
good luck ! |
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Phil
USA
829 Posts |
Posted - 05/30/2010 : 11:59:32 AM
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Your team may have just qualified for regionals for the first time, but you've been to the Tournament of Champions three sessions in a row, which is better than any other team in the league. Congratulations.
Your team started Summer Session with an 8, four 5's, two 4's, and a 2 - what did you expect?
I'm not sure why you think you can't play with them in regionals, though. Those rosters aren't affected by Summer Session matches, only by handicap review (us) and skill level certification (players).
Phil
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shodbyed
51 Posts |
Posted - 05/31/2010 : 2:01:14 PM
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i really dont see why everyone picks on the 23 rule. i agree with it whole heartedly. if there werent a 23 rule why not get 5 guys like sal jerry lin and sean lane to play and destroy everyone! no need for 2s and 3s right? who needs 'em. the aren't good enough to enjoy the game right? come on this game is for every body. if you cant play every night cuz ur an 8 then play 2 nights and alternate. i have very similar numbers to you on my team for regionals and i can play. (if i choose to and everyone shows) and seems to me your numbers work well enough for you to play. i dont get it.
seems my whole life is underfunded and overrated. |
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movistar
193 Posts |
Posted - 05/31/2010 : 6:49:41 PM
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I don't think EVERYBODY picks on the 23 rule... lol... It feels like I am the ONLY one...lol the older I get.. the more I complain!
The APA is very good about having "rules"... it would be very simple to say that only ONE 7 , 8 or 9 could play on any given night .. at least you could play when your night came up with a 25 rule ... when the roster has 8 "FRIENDS" 1 four 5 five's a two and one 8, the 8 NEVER gets to play . I admit 2 of the fives are OVER rated... one of them only has a 38 percent win record. how does the "Computer" explain that ?.....heck... I just returned from the tournament of champions where I was beaten by a 5 and a 7 .... maybe they were under rated, or I am over rated in 9 ball... who knows?... (only the computer) ! even a roster that included Sal, Jerry, and Sean are safe from the 25 rule.. theirs would be 27 by themselves.
a VERY simple solution instead of having a 25 rule. would be to have a rating of 2-7 in 9 ball just like 8 ball and keep the 23 rule. it is obvious that people who are lower skill levels will not be concerned with or care about changing the 23 rule. I just think the APA needs to be consistent.. 23 in 8 ball and 23 in nine ball... enough said... good night and happy shooting ! |
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PekingTurtle
5 Posts |
Posted - 05/31/2010 : 11:30:50 PM
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| Lower handicapped players won't care? Moving to 25 rule would remove the need for 1's and 2's in this league. Think they care now? Making 7's, 8's, and 9's into one group where they only need 46 balls to win, do you think 4's and 5's would care? Suppose the APA did move to a 25 rule, what happens when your team out grows that? What happens when no new low level players join the league because they are not needed any more? The APA is about fun and introducing new players to the game. Do you think new players with no experience are going to want to play in a league where they would have little or no chance to win? I wouldn't. |
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movistar
193 Posts |
Posted - 06/01/2010 : 07:25:39 AM
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| a short comment to the turtle... I meant , the lower players wouldn't have a need to change the rule to 25 and the 46 balls could be raised from 46 to another amount at the choice of the APA...if it stayed at 23 |
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movistar
193 Posts |
Posted - 06/01/2010 : 07:27:30 AM
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| an ajustment to all ball requirements could be made for ALL levels accordingly |
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movistar
193 Posts |
Posted - 06/01/2010 : 07:32:19 AM
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| 1's go to ten /2's go to 20 / 3's go to 30 / 4's go to 40/ 5's go to 50 / 6's go to 60 / 7's go to 70... might also speed up the game and make score keeping easier |
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D-RACK
USA
321 Posts |
Posted - 06/01/2010 : 09:01:37 AM
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Easy solution.... Find friends that don'y play pool as well....
LOL JK
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shodbyed
51 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2010 : 4:19:31 PM
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movistar. still am with you in the same boat. my regional sl's are 8 7 6 4 4 4 3. if even one of them go up during the tourny i CANT play at all. not to mention if any of my 4s or my 3 dont show i forfeit! my new team includes a couple of 1s now. i can play any time now with that. my advise is to drop your other best player or players and grab up a couple of newbies and teach them how to play. or find a team without any high players. we put ourselves into that position it is up to us to get ourselves out
seems my whole life is underfunded and overrated. |
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movistar
193 Posts |
Posted - 06/04/2010 : 2:47:23 PM
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| HEY Shod....everybody talks about how the APA is where they come to play and "have a good time"//// that is why I chose MY friends to play with... none of them are ever going to be professional and will probably never make it to 7 8 or 9 but I continue to help them and prefer to play with my FEIENDS.. but the 23 rule is preventing that... I will stop complaining now because it doesn't do any good... going to try to go back to sleep now ... have a good weekend |
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Phil
USA
829 Posts |
Posted - 06/04/2010 : 7:23:47 PM
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If the rule was 25, or 27, or 29, or whatever, SOMEBODY would still tell the same story. They just want to play with their friends, but the rule won't allow it, so the rule sucks.
I think it sucks FOR YOU that the rule won't allow you to play with the friends you've chosen. I don't think it sucks for anyone else, and I don't think the rule itself sucks.
Phil
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lyrad
USA
11 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2010 : 01:50:08 AM
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I'll start with a disclaimer: I enjoy playing pool in the APA and I am not looking to cause problems. With that having been said, here are my thoughts.
The 23 rule is just an extension of the handicap system.
Because there is currently no way to accurately handicap a player, the number crunchers at the APA had to devise other ways to level the playing field.
Unfortunately, the 23 rule has backfired. Because no one wants to move up and take the chance they might be ++SL'd out of playing on their team and, let's be honest, it is easier to win if you are ranked below your actual skill. I have had people look at me like I have insulted them when I comment that their 4 shoots like a 6. These days a simple compliment is interpreted as an accusation.
The problem is that you are penalized if you get too good. Ideally there should be incentive to play better but with the 23 rule and game performance averaging the plusses are cancelled out and sandbagging is rewarded.
If the handicap system were more accurate it wouldn't matter if you were playing all 7s or 9s against 2s and 3s because the handicap would make it a fair fight (which is what they claim it does).
I am an SL6 and I can attest that playing a 1 or 2 is rarely fun for either player. If I play my best, they hardly get a shot; If I ease up, not only am I sandbagging but I am opening myself, and team, up to a thumping.
I haven't come up with incentives for improving other than patches so...
Here are some of my thoughts on things that could change that might make handicaps more accurate.
Since object ball layout varies so much in pool the rules could vary as well.
SL(1-3 both 8ball and 9ball) Anything goes...within reason.
SL(4-5 both 8ball and 9ball) No Slop.
SL(6 in 8ball, 6-7 in 9ball) No Timeouts, No slop, call all pockets.
SL(7 in 8ball, 8-9 in 9ball) No Timeouts, No slop, call all pockets, foul on all balls, 30 second shot clock.
Also,
Players who average well above the normal SL9 in 9ball (Sorry, Jerry) should have some kind of identifier that changes the curve for them. for example: For a player who averages the imaginary level of an SL11 the score sheet would read "SL9++" which would indicate that whomever they play gets to remove their skill level number of balls from their needed points for each plus sign to win. So, If I (SL6) am playing a 9++ then I take 12 balls needed off my required number They need 72 balls and instead of 46 balls I need 34 to win.
In 8ball The opponent to the SL7++ would get 1 ball Randomly chosen or the lowest number of their set after solids and stripes have been determined per rack per "+".
But, In the mean time we live in an imperfect world and what we have is the best those who are more statistically minded could devise. |
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Keith
USA
242 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2010 : 02:46:45 AM
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Come on guys you know nobody would complain about having a 45 point rule. Wait then 1 team would rule it all destroying the league. The 23 point rule is fair and prevents teams from loading up their rosters. If you want the senior skill level players to be used more often you would have to make it easier for them to win. Wait that's not fair either. Then all the low level people would complain that they don't want to take on the other teams best cas they don't stand a chance. If you look at the races closely you will see that the lower skilled player might even have the advantage. Well I kinda feel that way but then again I'm probably the weakest 7 around in 9ball. The best I can come up with is to go through and rerate all the players but then we would have to take a couple weeks off while Phil and Taz's computers stopped smoking. Not to mention that people would still fall through the cracks. I guess this is the best that is available at the moment so enjoy it. If you can't then test some theories and post after its been tested. If you come up with a way that is better and not just trading this problem for that one. It will get passed on eventually cas these people aren't stupid.
As for the handicap lyrad came up with. I would like to compliment you on thinking outside the box on this even though I may not agree. 8ball. If you look at it carefully you will notice that it helps the 7+ player. Hell I would love to get the other persons balls out of my way. I also don't think the 9ball ones would work either but I do have to say it's more inventive then anything I've thought of.
Hopefully I haven't pissed on too many boots here and have a nice weekend.
Insert inspirational sentence here. |
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Jeff Burkhammer
USA
132 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2010 : 10:15:51 AM
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Lyrad, that is the best post I ever read...too bad it will never be considered, But you nailed it.
When your green you grow, when your ripe you rot. |
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Phil
USA
829 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2010 : 1:39:09 PM
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quote:
[i]Originally posted by Jeff Burkhammer[/i]
[br]Lyrad, that is the best post I ever read...too bad it will never be considered, But you nailed it.
When your green you grow, when your ripe you rot.
Some people are just always negative.
Phil
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The APA 23 Rule sucks...
