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movistar
193 Posts |
 Posted - 06/05/2010 : 3:08:06 PM
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I have to say, I think some of you are starting to OVER exaggerate the rules that I am trying to make useable... I never said there should be a change to 26, 27, 29, on up to 45..... I am just saying that the 23 rule works in 8 ball but NOT in nine ball. OK..lets forget the change to 25... lets just make it 23 in both 8 and 9 ball
and make the skill levels in 8 and 9 the SAME 1-7. the APA would only have to re think and re adjust the 9 ball skill levels and change the ball count... a SIMPLE count would be 1's go to 10, 2's go to 20, 3's go to 30. 4's go to 40, 5's go to 50, 6's go to 60, and 7's go to 70. AND make the professional level players play in a MASTERS Bracket. |
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Jeff Burkhammer
USA
132 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2010 : 9:11:37 PM
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Negative, or observant? Hmmm, Debatable. Depends who you ask. Believe me, I would LOVE to be proven wrong.
When your green you grow, when your ripe you rot. |
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Phil
USA
829 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2010 : 10:21:00 PM
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Negative. Definitely negative. Comments like "too bad it will never be considered", written as an absolute, demonstrate a complete lack of observation, or at least a lack of understanding of the meaning of the word "considered".
Please don't confuse the words "accepted" or "implemented" with "considered". They mean completely different things.
Phil
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Phil
USA
829 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2010 : 10:47:02 PM
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quote:
[i]Originally posted by movistar[/i]
[br]I have to say, I think some of you are starting to OVER exaggerate the rules that I am trying to make useable... I never said there should be a change to 26, 27, 29, on up to 45..... I am just saying that the 23 rule works in 8 ball but NOT in nine ball. OK..lets forget the change to 25... lets just make it 23 in both 8 and 9 ball
and make the skill levels in 8 and 9 the SAME 1-7. the APA would only have to re think and re adjust the 9 ball skill levels and change the ball count... a SIMPLE count would be 1's go to 10, 2's go to 20, 3's go to 30. 4's go to 40, 5's go to 50, 6's go to 60, and 7's go to 70. AND make the professional level players play in a MASTERS Bracket.
How many "professional level players" do you think we have in all of the South Coast APA? If you don't include yourself in that group, it's less than 20. If you do include yourself, it's still less than 30. Is that enough for a separate Masters division? Consider also that this group is spread out from Ojai through Burbank.
I'm not sure how the current ball count requirements came about, but it wouldn't surprise me to find out that 10-20-30 etc. was the very first attempt, and it eventually evolved to what we have now.
What I find interesting, though, is that this proposal is the equivalent of raising the 23 limit. Seriously - you want to redefine the skill levels so that the group that can't meet 23 with you can do so with their new skill levels. Isn't that the same as raising the limit? The answer to that is the same - no matter how you redefine things, people will put their teams together to be as strong as possible, and will bump up against the 23 rule. It's the nature of competition.
Phil
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Jeff Burkhammer
USA
132 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2010 : 11:13:02 PM
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LOL, Okay.
When your green you grow, when your ripe you rot. |
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Keith
USA
242 Posts |
Posted - 06/06/2010 : 01:07:38 AM
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Phil I have a question. How many 7+ players there are in either format? This could be good to know when trying to start a masters division. If the computer doesn't have a number ready for you to read then don't worry about it. I don't want to be too much of a hassle.
Insert inspirational sentence here. |
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movistar
193 Posts |
Posted - 06/06/2010 : 07:19:35 AM
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ok... I guess the bottom line is that until the APA comes up with a way to REWARD people for improving their game and an incentive for getting better, this will remain a controversial topic and the league will remain a great place to play and have fun, especially at the beach with all the sandbaggers.... lol
cause, right now.. that is the only incentive (sandbagging and manipulating the 23 rule) have fun and shoot well (most of the time) |
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Phil
USA
829 Posts |
Posted - 06/06/2010 : 07:24:04 AM
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57 7's in 8-Ball, 77 7+ in 9-Ball.
I can't split that into geographic areas conducive to a division, though.
Every contributor to this thread (except one) is a 7+ player...
Phil
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D-RACK
USA
321 Posts |
Posted - 06/07/2010 : 11:06:13 AM
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Serious this is like the 3rd time this conversation has been brought up. SL are what they are just be glad you are one of the elite 57 or 77 out of 5000 + apa members.
Phil are you really the only non 7 to post?
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Edited by - D-RACK on 06/07/2010 11:06:55 AM |
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movistar
193 Posts |
Posted - 06/07/2010 : 1:28:15 PM
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d=rack.. you are VERY right.. this subject has been brought up several times... but the ONLY way things ever change is if enough people get involved.. and the PLAYERS voices are heard.... nobody is FORCED to read a post or respond... but everyones input is welcome.
I am very glad that I have been lucky enough to improve my skill level and proud to say that I have NEVER been accused of sandbagging. |
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Keith
USA
242 Posts |
Posted - 06/08/2010 : 01:57:30 AM
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I'm not complaining about the 23 rule. I have no room to do so. I had other reasons to ask my question. Oh if any of you are looking to join a team you will be able to play on just about each week I have 1 spot open.
Insert inspirational sentence here. |
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Showtime
USA
73 Posts |
Posted - 06/08/2010 : 08:45:12 AM
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quote:
[i]Originally posted by Phil[/i]
[br]57 7's in 8-Ball, 77 7+ in 9-Ball.
I can't split that into geographic areas conducive to a division, though.
Every contributor to this thread (except one) is a 7+ player...
Phil
Good info.
How many 7's and 7+'s are no longer active members? These people were not included in the numbers you stated above, correct?
I know all possibilities aren't covered with the answer to this question, just curious.
If I disagree with you, it is because I am right. |
Edited by - Showtime on 06/08/2010 08:46:44 AM |
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Jeff Burkhammer
USA
132 Posts |
Posted - 06/08/2010 : 11:23:15 AM
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Okay Phil, after re reading some things, I wanted to make clear my statement. For the record, I didnt quite have you in mind when I made that response, but can see how you could take offense. My statement was based on me feeling its a national league, and the odds of change are slim to none as every league across the board would have to be in agreement..Could happen, But its grim...Negative? guess I am when it comes to this topic, its frustrating, yes...Unless your a solid 7, and can hold a low SL team together, some do...Some dont. I feel the league has been around long enough, and has heard all the complaints that can be made on this issue, and yet here we are...."It is what it is" seems to be the norm in response.. Thats where I was coming from. So I do apologize if I offended you personally.
When your green you grow, when your ripe you rot. |
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Phil
USA
829 Posts |
Posted - 06/08/2010 : 4:50:27 PM
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quote:
[i]Originally posted by Jeff Burkhammer[/i]
[br]Okay Phil, after re reading some things, I wanted to make clear my statement. For the record, I didnt quite have you in mind when I made that response, but can see how you could take offense. My statement was based on me feeling its a national league, and the odds of change are slim to none as every league across the board would have to be in agreement..Could happen, But its grim...Negative? guess I am when it comes to this topic, its frustrating, yes...Unless your a solid 7, and can hold a low SL team together, some do...Some dont. I feel the league has been around long enough, and has heard all the complaints that can be made on this issue, and yet here we are...."It is what it is" seems to be the norm in response.. Thats where I was coming from. So I do apologize if I offended you personally.
When your green you grow, when your ripe you rot.
There's also nothing in here that hasn't been considered, discussed, debated, and argued over by the league operator network over the years. Well, except maybe some of Daryl's ideas (the collective, anyway), and I will be responding to them after I have given them due consideration.
You might not realize that a certain amount of complaining about the 23 rule is to be EXPECTED. The 23 rule was implemented years and years ago to prevent dominant teams, and it does just that. It wouldn't be working if nobody was ever affected, if no team ever got itself into a 23-rule marmalade (or is that jam?).
Phil
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TracyW3
USA
22 Posts |
Posted - 06/08/2010 : 5:11:45 PM
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I agree with Lyrad's concept, the 23 rule encourages sandbagging and that should be negated by some form or another. How hard would it be to say there can only be one SL 7-9 player on each team and cancel the 2(3) rule all together? If players are accurately handicapped it shouldn’t matter who you play, it would encourage getting better for the right reasons, like to improve your game… Before I became a 4 I felt like I was getting better but, I honestly was hoping that I wouldn’t get moved up (I did nothing different but hope)… I wouldn’t be able to play as much, I felt so valuable as a three, then I became a four and wouldn’t play for weeks at a time, I always play my best, I play to win! Finally I’m seen as a valid 4 and get to play but it’s sad that other people are playing differently and manipulating the game/score to keep themselves at a lower skill level.
Thanks for another interesting topic Movistar!
-Tracy- |
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The APA 23 Rule sucks...
