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Derailed
USA
38 Posts |
 Posted - 04/18/2009 : 11:31:06 AM
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| Phil, for you, what does the message board and the movie the Godfather have in common? " Every time I think I'm out, they Pull me back in!"-Micheal Corleone |
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movistar
193 Posts |
Posted - 04/25/2009 : 4:22:37 PM
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once again....some are missing the POINT... don't change the handicap system... just change the scoring system..ONE point for winning an
8 ball match one POINT for winning a 9 ball match.....
math simple simple......
forget about winning 6 points for beating a six
or 2 for beating a two
and raise the RULE to 25 in 9 ball since the levels go up to 8 & 9 in nine ball
that would probably be the best incentive in the APA to "get better"
I admit... there are NOT many 8's or 9's in the league ...but it does affect the teams that do have them on their team....
hummmm a lightbulb just went off.... maybe that is why players do NOT have an incentive to get better, cause their skill level goes up and
shazam.... can't meet the 23 rule...!!!is that called sandbagging?
have a great day and shoot well |
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movistar
193 Posts |
Posted - 05/30/2009 : 5:37:09 PM
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it is amazing...it has been over a month since I responded to this thread and nobody has returned the favor...guess it is true that when somebody "Speaks the TRUTH"....everybody shuts up.....
have a great week and shoot well
just a clarification...
If I refer to people who are "sandbagging"
(manipulating the system)
I am ONLY talking to those it applies to... if YOU are guilty, YOU will take offense... if you are innocent... it will NOT bother you. |
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TCIndepMo
USA
12 Posts |
Posted - 06/16/2009 : 01:04:59 AM
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"once again....some are missing the POINT... don't change the handicap system... just change the scoring system.."
I agree. Would the billiard world come to a halt if the APA really did change their scoring system? Finally, after 29 years?
Keep giving 1 full point to the over all winner of each match BUT also award .2 (two tenths) to the winner of each game. Up to a maximum of five games which would cover all but 3 of the 18 possible SL combinations. A win by your SL 4 would thus be worth 1.6 that night, while a win by your SL 5 would add 1.8 to the team score. Once the sandbaggers figure out they can contribute more to the team as an honest SL 5, rather than a cheating SL 4, hopefully they will come back from the dark side. And if they want to continue to dump entire games to pad their innings, now they would be surrendering .2 of a point to their opponent.
Much more details involved, but that hits the main points.
All kinds of ways to effect change, but it has to be simple for all to quickly understand, be fair to honest players as well, retain the "on any given night" aspect of APA play and not create a bigger problem that sandbagging already is.
FULL DISCLOSURE - I am an APA LO that Phil allows to visit your site.
TomCampbell
APA Independence Missouri |
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Phil
USA
829 Posts |
Posted - 06/16/2009 : 01:19:10 AM
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Don't use fuzzy math, Tom. Things are fuzzy enough already for some of our frequent participants out here.
Tom's suggestion is five points for winning the match and one point for each game won. Same system, but the math is easier for guys like Matt and Torsten.
I'll let you guys chew on this a while before posting my thoughts on a system like this.
Phil
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TCIndepMo
USA
12 Posts |
Posted - 06/16/2009 : 1:24:16 PM
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Uh. That's close, but not exactly.
We keep giving one full point for the overall winner of each of the five points.
In addition - we would award .2 (that's two/tenths of a point) to the winner of each game up to a maximum of five games. This means a winning SL 4, for instance, would end up with 1.6 for the night. The losing player from that same match would also get .2 for each game they won. If the loser was a SL 7 who only won four games that player would get .8 as his score, instead of the current ZERO.
SL 2 and 3's would also get an additional .1 after their FIRST game won. So an overall win by a SL 2 or 3 (when reduced to needing 2)would be worth 1.5. The winner would always receive a higher score than the loser and sandbaggers would be stupid to dump games (would be giving away .2 for every game lost on purpose) in order to pad their innings. LOs would still have to police the sandbaggers of course but hopefully the common sense would kick in and players would realize they are of more worth to their team with a higher SL, instead of lower.
The 23 RULE would even out the team's effort by end of the night. Every game of every point would definitely be more valuable at the end of the 14 weeks.
Just a thought for you guys to mull over.
TomCampbell
APA Independence Missouri |
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BigRigTom
USA
102 Posts |
Posted - 06/16/2009 : 1:46:32 PM
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quote:
[i]Originally posted by TCIndepMo[/i]
[br]Uh. That's close, but not exactly.
We keep giving one full point for the overall winner of each of the five points.
In addition - we would award .2 (that's two/tenths of a point) to the winner of each game up to a maximum of five games. This means a winning SL 4, for instance, would end up with 1.6 for the night. The losing player from that same match would also get .2 for each game they won. If the loser was a SL 7 who only won four games that player would get .8 as his score, instead of the current ZERO.
SL 2 and 3's would also get an additional .1 after their FIRST game won. So an overall win by a SL 2 or 3 (when reduced to needing 2)would be worth 1.5. The winner would always receive a higher score than the loser and sandbaggers would be stupid to dump games (would be giving away .2 for every game lost on purpose) in order to pad their innings. LOs would still have to police the sandbaggers of course but hopefully the common sense would kick in and players would realize they are of more worth to their team with a higher SL, instead of lower.
The 23 RULE would even out the team's effort by end of the night. Every game of every point would definitely be more valuable at the end of the 14 weeks.
Just a thought for you guys to mull over.
TomCampbell
APA Independence Missouri
Tom I like your idea and I also like your name...it is the best!
hehe
Seriously though if you take your idea and throw out the decimal (which always frightens the none math minded) and make those tenths into whole numbers would the system not work the same with there being a total of 10 points per match instead of the 1 point divided into tenths?
Great idea as a whole...just keep the numbers whole as well.
BigRigTom
http://hardingersystems.com/BAT-Forum to discuss Billiards and Trucking or anything that interest you! |
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D-RACK
USA
321 Posts |
Posted - 06/16/2009 : 4:04:57 PM
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LMAO
Seriously think its gonna change?
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BigRigTom
USA
102 Posts |
Posted - 06/16/2009 : 4:09:07 PM
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quote:
[i]Originally posted by D-RACK[/i]
[br]LMAO
Seriously think its gonna change?
Seriously?
Maybe someday.....
BigRigTom
http://hardingersystems.com/BAT-Forum to discuss Billiards and Trucking or anything that interest you! |
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bikercowboy
105 Posts |
Posted - 06/16/2009 : 5:56:07 PM
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I need to spend some more time on the 'fuzzy math' but I have all 5 ready to play and I should be penalized? That sounds worse than fuzzy
Isn't the object to make the object ball? But yes you are right the leave would be awesome if it was your shot. |
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TCIndepMo
USA
12 Posts |
Posted - 06/17/2009 : 01:14:45 AM
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TO BIGRIGTOM - I did think about 10 points per match and 2 points per game,etc. But staying with 1 point per match and using decimals for each game value accomplishes my point. Asking 260,000 players, 267 LOs and some residents of Lake St Louis, Mo to abandon the "let's try and win all five tonight" concept was just too much. When I tried "let's win all 50 tonight" it just didn't sound right to me. LOL.
Besides, 10 and 2 points compared to 1 and .2 points is just a case of mathamatical semantics, isn't it? It just moves the decimal point. If our nine ball players can figure out APA nine ball scoring and even the newest rookie can figure out the SL chart by end of their first night I really believe the rest of you guys can deal with decimals and tenths of a point. Especially if the system has the desired effect on the sandbaggers.
TO D-RACK "seriously thinks its gonna change?" - Obviously that depends on a whole bunch of LOs who hopefully are as tried as I and Phil & Taz are of going to war with the sandbaggers every week. Yes, it is part of our job. Unfortunately, some LOs approach this problem with differing levels of enthusiasm, to be kind.
Also depends on changing a lot of minds in Lake St Louis. I already have at least one exec (high up the chain of command) that sounds very interested and she tells me a couple of others are mulling it over.
D-Rack, I noticed your post started with "LMAO". Not trying to start an argument or anything but did you mean that as sarcastic, as in "the APA will NEVER change" or do you just think the whole concept is funny? That is mostly why I even posted the idea in the first place. To get some feedback from players other than in my own area (most of greater Kansas City).
Whatever the response I appreciate your interest.
TO BIKER COWBOY - sorry, don't understand your post. IMO, this is no more "fuzzy" than the APA nine ball system. I only want to penalize the sandbaggers.
Whatever happens - thanks to you folks for even bothering with my gibberish. It's late, especially in Missouri.
And if it helps, I won a bundle on the Lakers. Hope you did too.
TomCampbell
APA Independence Missouri |
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Keith
USA
242 Posts |
Posted - 06/17/2009 : 05:08:39 AM
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There is one thing that I don't agree with in that system. It favors some teams over others. Playing all 23 is not an option for some of the teams out there. It also makes the points that you can get dependent upon your opponents numbers. This is a cool concept but it has some loop holes that would be big enough to drive a truck through. The only thing that could stop cheating is honesty. There are those out there that sandbag but there are many others that don't and get blamed every week.
There are no stupid questions except the one you just asked. |
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movistar
193 Posts |
Posted - 06/17/2009 : 8:11:52 PM
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my actual intent of changing the scoring system was actually directed at the individual scoring for MVP.... forget about the decimal system and just give a player one point for winning the match.
I found it very unfair for players (example 5's) playing in the same bracket.... one plays a 7 and wins and the other plays a 2 and wins and all of a sudden the one player is ahead 7-2 in the MVP race and both players played just as hard to win....I personally checked the final standings of ALL the Southcoast APA teams last session, and there were VERY Few ties in each bracket.... If there were any ties they could easily have a one night playoff to decide the winner to coinside with the team playoffs.....
the team scoring in 8 ball is already done with a one point system and that seems to work out ok .
if anybody doesn't understand this... please reply to this post and I will repeat and type it more SLOWLY for you.
have a great season and shoot well...
first post should be from someone who will tell me why this system will NOT work........ hummmm no takers....lol |
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Keith
USA
242 Posts |
Posted - 06/18/2009 : 03:44:54 AM
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There is a big difference playing against a 2 rather than a 7. Against a 2 the largest challenge is not to take shots that are not needed and to play on the conservative side. Playing against a 7 you need to go out on a limb more often than not to win. There is a lot more pressure playing a highly skilled player and it should be rewarded. I have run into very few 2s that finish off a rack if a shot is missed early. Come to think of it the ones that did finish the rack are no longer 2s.
There are no stupid questions except the one you just asked. |
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movistar
193 Posts |
Posted - 06/18/2009 : 1:00:33 PM
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Mr TCI from MO..... glad to see that another section of the country might be getting involved in seeing some changes made to the scoring system in the APA...it will only happen if MORE people are made aware of the POSSIBILITIES...
thanks....my other concern..(while I am on my mission)... the 9 ball 23 rule needs to change to 25 since there are 8's and 9's in APA ratings, making it more difficult for teams to field teams who have 8's of 9's on their roster///this would give players more incentive to "get better" instead of "sandbagging" to stay under the 23 rule
thanks again
Congratulations PHIL... I think your idea about 3 points and a point for losing but still getting on the hill are better than getting points based on a players skill level...keep up the good work |
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Topic |
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Suggest changing 8 ball scoring method
