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Keith
USA
242 Posts |
 Posted - 06/18/2009 : 10:50:56 PM
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This is just a guess but the national office would probably go for lowering the sl of each player by one (making it from 0 to 8) before changing the 23 rule. The number of people who have the skill to be a 9 or even an 8 is very low. There are probably more 1s out there than there are 8s and 9s combined. Then again the 23 rule is how the apa can continue to grow. Having teams constantly looking for new players to bring in and get hooked before they make their way up the ladder.
There are no stupid questions except the one you just asked. |
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movistar
193 Posts |
Posted - 06/19/2009 : 12:18:05 PM
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KEITH... you make a very good point about the importance of "bringing in new players" .... but what about the importance of the OLD players who started out as 1's and 2's and 3's.....and didn't sandbag and who are now 8's and 9's, but find it HARD to play regularly on a team because nobody sandbags on their team and skill levels go up and the 23 rule can't be met?
just wondering why the APA is so "dead set" on not making any changes.
the saying goes..."if it an't broke, don't fix it"...well... I think it "is broke" and some changes need to be made.
have fun and shoot well...thanks for reading |
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BigRigTom
USA
102 Posts |
Posted - 06/19/2009 : 12:40:10 PM
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quote:
[i]Originally posted by movistar[/i]
[br]KEITH... you make a very good point about the importance of "bringing in new players" .... but what about the importance of the OLD players who started out as 1's and 2's and 3's.....and didn't sandbag and who are now 8's and 9's, but find it HARD to play regularly on a team because nobody sandbags on their team and skill levels go up and the 23 rule can't be met?
just wondering why the APA is so "dead set" on not making any changes.
the saying goes..."if it an't broke, don't fix it"...well... I think it "is broke" and some changes need to be made.
have fun and shoot well...thanks for reading
I have read and re-read this and several other post regarding the APA changing the scoring and skill level stuff especially since I started this thread I am anxious to see if anything comes of it.
We started out talking about the 8 ball scoring system NOT giving credit to the loser no matter how well that player shot in the match. If you don't win the game you may as well of just set the game out on the score sheet because there is no indication if you made no balls or if you made all but the eight. It does not matter what skill level you are either if you lose the game.
There is absolutely no question that the scoring system in 8 ball could stand some improvement. The question is how do you change it so that you are not throwing out the baby with the bath water?
This thing about the higher levels in 9 ball is totally off topic but it is still interesting to me. I am one of those people who has trouble with my teams staying within the 23 rule and for all the same reasons.
I have pretty much accepted the 23 rule as a necessary evil and that is a discussion for another thread anyway.
What about the scoring system used in 8 ball? What can be do to improve it for everyone, including the APA. If nothing else the APA will get some browny points with the higher levels for just trying to improve their plight.
BigRigTom
http://hardingersystems.com/BAT-Forum to discuss Billiards and Trucking or anything that interest you! |
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movistar
193 Posts |
Posted - 06/19/2009 : 1:26:35 PM
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BIG TOM... this is where it all starts...getting more people to think about the possible changes..thanks for your input...sorry about adding the 9 ball topic in your thread but at least people are reading about it... the SAME scoring system could be used in the 9 ball for MVP but still keep the skill level handicaps the same and awarding the winner of the match 1, or (as Phil suggested) 3 points for winning instead of the number indicated for their opponents skill level
that was EVERYBODY is treated the same for winning.
shoot well ...have a great summer |
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Keith
USA
242 Posts |
Posted - 06/19/2009 : 9:55:51 PM
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The way 9 ball is set up it allows for the points to be split between the two teams. You have a set number that you go to letting there be a set chart to figure out how the points are split. In 8 ball the amount of games one needs to win depends on their sl rating and their opponents sl rating. This makes it a lot more difficult to figure out a way to split an amount of points between the two teams. Not to mention when it is finally figured out. Players will get confused and frustrated with the scoring method. So any change to the scoring method in 8 ball would need to be something simple and can't have multiple levels of rewards for the losing player based on how they did in their match.
I am also wondering how many people have started out at the level of a 1 or 2 and made their way up to an 8 or 9.
There are no stupid questions except the one you just asked. |
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movistar
193 Posts |
Posted - 06/19/2009 : 11:32:10 PM
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I give up.... have a nice day...
I am only talking about the singles scoring system for MVP !!!!!
anybody who starts out a 1-2-3-4-5 etc can end up a 7-8-or 9 if they practice and take lessons and try to play the game the way it is intended,,,play to win and have fun....never quit!!!
and practice...practice...practice... don't just play....Practice |
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movistar
193 Posts |
Posted - 06/19/2009 : 11:37:47 PM
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how much simpler do you want it...?
give a player one point for winning a match.... simple...do the math... a player wins 8 matches.. he has 8 points toward MVP... |
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Keith
USA
242 Posts |
Posted - 06/20/2009 : 12:59:46 PM
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If I played against 2s each time I would never feel like I was in danger of losing the match. If I remember correctly I have not lost an 8 ball match to a 2 yet. On the other end when I play against a 7. Nine ball on the other hand is a little closer to being balanced. There is still a big difference between playing a 1 and a 9. The higher skill levels are more difficult to beat on average. I play against senior skill levels pretty often and there is a chance that I don't get the opportunity to lose the match. Some of them have the ability to take it before I get a true chance to do anything at the table. It seems to me that you play against mid level players and are not your teams heavy hitter. If you played against the senior skill levels very often you would probably not have brought up a change to the mvp.
There are no stupid questions except the one you just asked. |
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BigRigTom
USA
102 Posts |
Posted - 06/20/2009 : 1:18:39 PM
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quote:
[i]Originally posted by Keith[/i]
[br]If I played against 2s each time I would never feel like I was in danger of losing the match. If I remember correctly I have not lost an 8 ball match to a 2 yet. On the other end when I play against a 7. Nine ball on the other hand is a little closer to being balanced. There is still a big difference between playing a 1 and a 9. The higher skill levels are more difficult to beat on average. I play against senior skill levels pretty often and there is a chance that I don't get the opportunity to lose the match. Some of them have the ability to take it before I get a true chance to do anything at the table. It seems to me that you play against mid level players and are not your teams heavy hitter. If you played against the senior skill levels very often you would probably not have brought up a change to the mvp.
There are no stupid questions except the one you just asked.
OK, Keith and Movistar...My head is spinning again....good luck with all the hypotheticals!
Let try to stay on topic.
That was changing the 8 ball scoring method for the better.
I am not the board admin or moderator but if this discussion keeps going south I think I an most others will just start ignoring it.
BigRigTom
http://hardingersystems.com/BAT-Forum to discuss Billiards and Trucking or anything that interest you! |
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Keith
USA
242 Posts |
Posted - 06/20/2009 : 2:45:07 PM
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If there is something that might work better that what is in place. I would help test it.
There are no stupid questions except the one you just asked. |
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Taz
USA
555 Posts |
Posted - 06/20/2009 : 7:00:17 PM
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This topic became muddled way back on page one. It started out discussing a change in 8-Ball scoring (team) and someone jumped in the middle (movistar) and started talking about the scoring system used to calculate MVP points (singles).
If you go back thru the thread, it is quite comical when you consider some of those posting are talking team scoring and some are talking strictly scoring used for MVP points and neither side seems to realize they are talking apples and oranges. |
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movistar
193 Posts |
Posted - 06/20/2009 : 9:20:41 PM
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my total sincere apology goes out to everyone who read this thread and were upset because I "jumped in" and made a post that many readers were unable to understand.... because of the inability to count by 1's
I will never.... (try)not to post on anybody's thread again unless I am asked to do so...
the initial post did NOT say anything except "a new method of scoring 8 ball matches".... nothing about team scoring .....
all "matches" are between 2 players and their "win or loss" determines the final TEAM score....and the post was "muddled" and confusing for trying to add all kinds of possibilities for points for leaving balls on the table etc...
and at the end.... asked for comments ....from "anybody".... guess i see what I am...
everybody should smile and enjoy the "comedy"....
next time somebody makes a post ...please leave a note at the bottom, asking "movistar" NOT to reply !
I promise to try to purchase all my "apples and oranges" at the supermarket....
any comments.....anybody? lol.....shoot well...thanks for reading |
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Taz
USA
555 Posts |
Posted - 06/21/2009 : 05:27:12 AM
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Wow, I was simply replying to BigTom saying "lets stay on topic" and pointing out the fact that the topic was muddled a while back. No one that I know of was "upset".
There should actually be two different threads. 1) changing 8-Ball scoring method (team) and 2) different way to calculate MVP points.
There was no intent to discourage Movistar from posting and sharing. Regardless whether you agree with him or not, Movistar actually bring up some very interesting "food for tought" in some of his posts. It's a shame you (movistar) seem to have taken this as a personal attack or something. |
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movistar
193 Posts |
Posted - 06/21/2009 : 11:52:14 AM
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hey TAZ.... no personal attack was felt.... just covering all the bases...anyway... thanks for acknowledging that some of my comments are giving "food for thought"...over 1200 people have read this thread, so maybe there is an interest in changing the scoring system..keep up the good work...Tom..thanks for starting this thread..it might lead to some positive things
happy fathers day! |
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Torsten
USA
401 Posts |
Posted - 06/27/2009 : 2:41:47 PM
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Ok, Movistar. There isn't anything wrong with your idea of how to award singles or mvp points, apart from that it does not take into account the skill of the losing player. The system isn't broke. It may imperfect. But it ain't broke. The point, as mentioned by keith, and I'm sure someone else as well, is that it's not as difficult to beat your average SL 3 as it is your average SL 6.
To get "rewarded" the same for beating...say... my dad (not in the league but would probably be a SL3) and say... Nat Hunnicutt (a good SL 6) is not right.
From what I understand, your issue is working your butt off to beat a SL3, seeing one of your colleagues enjoy some luck and beat a SL 7, and now you're already 4 points back in the top shooter race, even though your hard work and good play deserved better, right?
Since I have stuff to do today, I'm not gonna sit here and wait for your response, rather, I'll assume I'm that in my infinite genius I've hit the nail on the head.
Before I go any further, I'm going to go on the record and say I don't advocate any change being done to this system, and am happy the way it is. However, Movistar, what if you did this. Rather than a flat point for winning, how about you get 1 point for beating someone of your level, 1.1 points for beating someone ranked higher, and .9 for someone ranked below. Or you could do it by tiers. Beat a low tier player, get .8 points. Beat a mid tier player, that's worth 1 point. Beat a black tier player... now you've hit the jackpot. 1.2 points for you! If nothing else, this would mitigate your concern of awarding too many points for getting lucky against a high rank, while not getting rewarded enough for beating a tough, low-ranked player. At the same time, you get a little bonus for beating a big shot.
Ok, people, tear it apart.
I think the worst time to have a heart attack would be during a game of charades... or during a game of fake heart attack. |
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Suggest changing 8 ball scoring method
