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BigRigTom
USA
102 Posts |
 Posted - 07/14/2009 : 08:10:24 AM
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When someone is breaking and accidently bumps the cue ball in that last practice stroke then immediately makes the final break stroke hitting the moving cue ball into the rack...is that acceptible or is there even a rule about the event?
What if the shooter appears to have done this intentionally?
What if the shooter hits that moving cue ball into the rack and make the 8 on the break...does this raise questions?
BigRigTom
http://hardingersystems.com/BAT-Forum to discuss Billiards and Trucking or anything that interest you! |
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frananator
USA
17 Posts |
Posted - 07/14/2009 : 09:41:42 AM
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team manual page 45 "Breaking" for 8 ball page 64 for 9 ball
"The rack must be struck before a foul can occur" |
Edited by - frananator on 07/15/2009 09:30:21 AM |
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python16
5 Posts |
Posted - 07/15/2009 : 3:13:25 PM
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| the problem with this is that there is a rule on how many bad breaks player gets before the other player breaks. Let's say I'm breaking. I miscue (or just don't hit it as hard as I wanted to) and grab the cue ball before it hits the rack. I set up again and do the same thing. How many times do I keep doing this, since no foul has occurred because I grabbed the cue ball before it hit the rack? |
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frananator
USA
17 Posts |
Posted - 07/15/2009 : 5:20:44 PM
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Python16
I see no "lmit" stipulated in the rules - but - I think most players will ask you to stop "grabbing the cue ball before it hits the rack" after you do that twice and ask you to let it hit the rack - you will either make a legal break or not then go from there.
Many brand new players (not saying you) have a hard time breaking in 8 ball so, many times, if everybody agrees, we will just take the table the way it is to save time & frustration on the part of the breaker. |
Edited by - frananator on 07/15/2009 5:21:44 PM |
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BigRigTom
USA
102 Posts |
Posted - 07/15/2009 : 5:35:05 PM
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I asked this question because I saw a player the other day hit the cue ball accidently on his last practice stroke then proceeded to execute a pretty damn nice break in which the 8 ball almost went into the side pocket.
The shooter just continued to play as if nothing happened. His opponent did not mention the goofy break and I'm not sure he even noticed it so I didn't say anything either.
It just made me wonder if there were any rules addressing this because it was one of those infamous "double hits" that no one ever really knows what to do about and we mostly just let them go unless there happen to be a 3rd eye observer involved at the time.
BigRigTom
http://hardingersystems.com/BAT-Forum to discuss Billiards and Trucking or anything that interest you! |
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python16
5 Posts |
Posted - 07/15/2009 : 6:28:13 PM
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| I was just pointing out that the rule about legal breaks( two illegal breaks then the opponent breaks) could be avoided by using this tactic. In essence, one rule being used to avoid the penalty of anothe rule. |
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Phil
USA
829 Posts |
Posted - 07/15/2009 : 7:42:07 PM
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quote:
[i]Originally posted by python16[/i]
[br]I was just pointing out that the rule about legal breaks( two illegal breaks then the opponent breaks) could be avoided by using this tactic. In essence, one rule being used to avoid the penalty of anothe rule.
You're gonna have to give me a page/section number, I can't seem to find the "two illegal breaks then the opponent breaks" rule in the Team Manual.
Phil
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python16
5 Posts |
Posted - 07/15/2009 : 9:01:45 PM
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| I just realized that I misread/misunderstood the rule on breaking(section 3, page 11) and have been playing that way for a long time. I have had others agree that I was correct, so I'm not the only one. |
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rhaydt
USA
109 Posts |
Posted - 07/16/2009 : 4:16:21 PM
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| I usually get told that after three the opponent breaks but have no idea where it comes from. |
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BigRigTom
USA
102 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2009 : 09:57:08 AM
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The rule in the Team Manual does state on page 45:
"3. BREAKING
To be a legal break, players must break from behind the head string, the head
ball or second ball must be struck first and at least four object balls must be
driven to the rails or a ball must be pocketed. The cue ball may not be shot
into a rail before the rack. If the break does not qualify as legal, the balls are
reracked and rebroken by the same player. If the break does not qualify as
legal and results in a scratch, the balls are reracked and broken by the opposite
player. THE RACK MUST BE STRUCK BEFORE A FOUL CAN
OCCUR. Breaking safe or soft is not allowed. The League Operator may
make judgments and issue penalties to teams and players who are not breaking
hard. Breaking just hard enough to comply with this rule is not a guarantee
against penalties. Remember, break as hard as you can with control."
And that seems to be it.....so....Rich, there is no limit to how many times a player can attempt to break if he or she does not get a legal break or an illegal break he or she can keep trying.
Double hitting the cue ball seems to be OK!
BigRigTom
http://hardingersystems.com/BAT-Forum to discuss Billiards and Trucking or anything that interest you! |
Edited by - BigRigTom on 07/29/2009 09:57:37 AM |
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movistar
193 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2009 : 11:00:13 PM
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this might be a technical question...(most of them are)..
the reading of the rule " the player must break from behind the head string"....
if the player places the que ball ON the headstring (as allowed), and then proceeds to "bump" it across the string while stroking it and then makes good contact with the que ball to break the rack and maybe making a couple of balls.... wouldn't this be considered "NOT a legal break", since the que stick made contact with the Que ball, a second time BEYOND the headstring????.... causing a re rack and break again ???
or possibly a foul for breaking beyond the headstring
hitting the cue ball to break the rack is PART of the shot for breaking...so double hitting the que ball should be a FOUL....just as in a double hit during the game.
beginning players.. listen up... this might apply to you...NOPE.. I have done it myself and I have been playing a lonnnnggggg time...lol
have a great game and shoot well
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SFVMark
USA
16 Posts |
Posted - 07/31/2009 : 10:26:48 AM
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Seriously? I think if someone called a foul on me for this, I would just have to laugh. |
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Nadie
1 Posts |
Posted - 08/28/2009 : 6:34:31 PM
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| Rules being what they are, I agree with movistar; if the secondary contact happens beyond the headstring, this would be a foul--and while you're certainly allowed to laugh at your own foul, SFVMark, the other player still gets the ball. |
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Calcwby4u
USA
89 Posts |
Posted - 08/28/2009 : 7:51:12 PM
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| So what are you going to do Nadie? I doubt there would be any player that would give up the break to you. You cannot cause a foul till the rack is struck. I'm with Mark, I'd laugh like hell if someone tried to call this a foul on me. |
Edited by - Calcwby4u on 08/28/2009 7:52:00 PM |
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Keith
USA
242 Posts |
Posted - 08/29/2009 : 02:00:56 AM
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| I am not so sure about the not being a foul if the ball is past the head string but that may just call for a rerack. Luckily I don't care if they accidentally bump the cue ball up past the "line of no return". When a 9 I shall not name breaks. He puts it on the line half the time and the other half of the time it is past it. |
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movistar
193 Posts |
Posted - 08/29/2009 : 10:54:47 AM
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C...by4u....so...if a foul doesn't occur til the rack is struck, a player COULD place the cue ball half way down the table and break from there, and it wouldn't be a foul ????? even thou the RULES state that the cue ball must be placed BEHIND the headstring...seems like the rules NEED to be changed to cover a foul if a player breaks PAST the headstring!!!!
common sense should state that a break shot begins the moment the cue tip touches the cue ball NOT when the ball touches the rack !!! |
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Topic |
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Double Clutch on the break?
