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Torsten
USA
401 Posts |
 Posted - 04/30/2010 : 8:40:44 PM
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For the record, I think the way the score is done is very fair. Although I do think the lower ranked players have a better shot in 9 ball. In 9 ball, your opponent is playing the same ball as you are. Therefore, if you rattle and hang a ball, that's a duck for your opponent. In 8 ball, if you rattle a ball, your opponent has to shoot at the opposite suit.
Again, not a criticism. Just an observation. You could conversely argue that safeties are easier to play in 9 ball because your opponent will have only one ball to shoot at instead of options in an entire suit. Just thought this might add some fuel to the conversation. :)
I think the worst time to have a heart attack would be during a game of charades... or during a game of fake heart attack. |
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TracyW3
USA
22 Posts |
Posted - 05/05/2010 : 6:57:19 PM
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Movistar – I would like to start off by saying thank you for trying to improve our scoring system and for being open to different ideas, I am a big fan of making changes for the better. That being said I see your Idea taking up A LOT more space on the score sheet. We have to keep in mind that we are keeping score for both players… So the max isn’t 75 it’s technically 149 since the players can’t BOTH reach 75. And we also have to consider racks that end after 1 or 2 balls, you would be wasting space with all those dead balls. I would keep the score sheet pretty much the way it is but if a change was made, I would make the tally area shorter and put in a row of boxes above or below each player’s tallies for people who want to can write in the ball# (and all their little notes).
Personally I am 50/50 on writing down the number of each ball. I would like to consider myself a pretty good score keeper… I pay attention to the game; defensive shots, the layout of the table, and the potential need for a time out, etc. That being said if someone slops in a ball I don’t always see what it is and taking the time to figure it out can sometimes cause you to miss something like marking an inning, and not everyone can see where the balls are coming out all the time. Unless you are playing a really aggressive team that doesn’t score well and likes to argue about it, I really don’t think it helps that much.
However…
After hearing Phil’s idea about the poker chips I had a visual of South Coast Teams going to Nationals with their own South Coast APA branded Custom 9-Ball Scoring Chips. Wouldn’t that be cool!! So I did a little research on custom chips and it wouldn’t cost that much to equip the whole area with those chips. (About $6.36 a set and that’s for the really cool non-label ones with DuraChip) Obviously there are minimum orders but we would qualify. And seriously if you don’t want to do this I will have to find a backer and sell sets myself. LOL!
Jeff Burkhammer – I hate 8-Ball because I choke. LOL. Not all the time but I think I was a two for a little while in 8-ball. Eeek!
Torsten - I think people are more accurately ranked in 9-ball. Every shot counts and although a higher ranked player seems to have a disadvantage in 9-ball a lower ranked player will have a harder time moving around the table. The key to 9-ball is que ball control and that’s not that easy!
Lyrad – I am stealing some of your scoring methods. I especially like the X connecting the points for the 9-ball. Very helpful! Thanks.
Wow this was long but this is an interesting topic! Thanks again Movistar for getting our brains going! Gotta go play now :D
-Tracy- |
Edited by - TracyW3 on 05/05/2010 6:58:23 PM |
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josepha
USA
17 Posts |
Posted - 05/06/2010 : 3:59:14 PM
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As a "trial" I took the 9-Ball Score Sheet and added the numbers suggested by movistar. I actually got 10 sets in without a problem. A copy of this modified form was sent to the League Operators. It is an interesting idea...
AMJ |
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iampato
USA
71 Posts |
Posted - 05/10/2010 : 09:06:03 AM
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I didn't read every post too much time. so sorry if I repeat what has been said.
I have played against teams that created these forms on their own. they are color coded, and really look nice. for the rare instance the discrepencies occur, I would prefer to keep things as they are. The forms are no use to anyone but the score keeper, and team using them. the can be used to track a players skill, as any box score would.
When all else fails... Get your butt up, your chin will follow. |
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movistar
193 Posts |
Posted - 06/08/2010 : 10:57:52 AM
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to all the people who are reading this thread and those trying to come up with workable solutions THANK you!!
as in ANY suggestion I make.. they are not set in stone as the SOLUTION .. each one needs to be talked about and "fine tuned" to meet the needs of the league and players. it is interesting that this thread has been read over a 1000 times probably because of the title.. that means there are a lot of people interested in the
"9 ball score sheets". lets continue to try to make valuable changes..... have a great day and thanks for ALL the input....
anybody interested in a NEW topic.(maybe making the APA a "call pocket" league since there is so much discussion about "SKILL" level lets make it a "SKILL game", do away with S L O P !!)just a thought ! |
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TracyW3
USA
22 Posts |
Posted - 06/08/2010 : 5:37:26 PM
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| :( Phil never responded about my custom poker chip idea... **Sniffle** |
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Torsten
USA
401 Posts |
Posted - 06/10/2010 : 6:56:25 PM
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Tracy, I'm not sure that players are more accurately ranked in 9 ball. The game is different dynamically and margin of victory is relevant, whereas in 8 ball, it doesn't matter if you rackless your opponent or barely squeak out a win. I defeated a SL2 in regionals (luckily i might add) who went on 6 runs of 3 balls or more during our match, including one of 5 balls, and two of 4. In 9 ball, she would have murdered me with points.
The reason I say it favors lower players is that several things do not come into play. Many newer players suffer from 8ball itis, or a severe nervousness before shooting the 8 because everything rides on that shot. In 9 ball, anything is worth points. Additionally, any ball you slop in after legal contact is worth a point, and you get to keep shooting. There is no penalty for dropping the 9 early. On the contrary, there's a two point reward plus the break. In 8 ball, if you hang a ball, it doesn't translate directly into an easy shot for your opponent, where in 9 ball, it almost unfailingly does.
And for the record, I am not complaining about this. I actually agree that the higher player should have to work slightly harder.
While your thought that 9ball is more accurately ranked is not necessarily one I agree with, that doesn't mean it's not right though. You have 3 additional levels of rating for players. Not sure if that makes it more accurate, less, or no difference. But anyhoo, that brings another of my novels to an end
I think the worst time to have a heart attack would be during a game of charades... or during a game of fake heart attack. |
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TracyW3
USA
22 Posts |
Posted - 06/11/2010 : 11:14:50 AM
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quote:
[i]Originally posted by Torsten[/i]
[br]Tracy, I'm not sure that players are more accurately ranked in 9 ball. The game is different dynamically and margin of victory is relevant, whereas in 8 ball, it doesn't matter if you rackless your opponent or barely squeak out a win. I defeated a SL2 in regionals (luckily i might add) who went on 6 runs of 3 balls or more during our match, including one of 5 balls, and two of 4. In 9 ball, she would have murdered me with points.
The reason I say it favors lower players is that several things do not come into play. Many newer players suffer from 8ball itis, or a severe nervousness before shooting the 8 because everything rides on that shot. In 9 ball, anything is worth points. Additionally, any ball you slop in after legal contact is worth a point, and you get to keep shooting. There is no penalty for dropping the 9 early. On the contrary, there's a two point reward plus the break. In 8 ball, if you hang a ball, it doesn't translate directly into an easy shot for your opponent, where in 9 ball, it almost unfailingly does.
And for the record, I am not complaining about this. I actually agree that the higher player should have to work slightly harder.
While your thought that 9ball is more accurately ranked is not necessarily one I agree with, that doesn't mean it's not right though. You have 3 additional levels of rating for players. Not sure if that makes it more accurate, less, or no difference. But anyhoo, that brings another of my novels to an end
I think the worst time to have a heart attack would be during a game of charades... or during a game of fake heart attack.
Torsten - Your example of what happened at the Regionals kinda helps my point. 8ball scoring can't calculate a player's ability as successfully as 9ball can. In 8ball, if a player can run out all of their respective balls but gets too nervous to put in an 8 and looses all of their matches... Should they be a two? I don't think so, my understanding is that people should be ranked based on their abilities, and in this case the player can make the 8 they just don't. In 9ball you can determine how many balls, on average, a player makes per inning. I believe that is a better judge of a players true abilities and why I think 9ball has a more accurate handicapping system, not because of the extra SLs.
But maybe the SL's in 8ball and 9ball shouldn't be relative. They ARE to different games and in APA they are played with two different goals in mind. I would be interested in knowing the # or percentage of people who have different skill levels in both 8 and 9ball. |
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Torsten
USA
401 Posts |
Posted - 06/13/2010 : 7:05:59 PM
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believe it or not, tracy, i thought about that as well. you do have a point, i concede, but there are too many other variables to make the determination that sl is better calculated in 9. a friend made the argument to me that every ball in 9 ball could be considered as important as an 8 ball in that format because any miss could have anyone's opponent run out. I think I just gave myself a headache.
I think the worst time to have a heart attack would be during a game of charades... or during a game of fake heart attack. |
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9 ball score sheets
